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Peter Beale · November 23rd 03, 10:53 PM posted to uk.transport.london

In article , (Richard J.) wrote:

sigh Another sign that English isn't taught well these days. If
you had been brought up in, say, Liverpool or Manchester, you would have been
very familiar with the large store called Lewis's (different company to
John Lewis).

Elsewhere you would have been exhorted by adverts on trams and buses to
"Shop at Binns" (I think without any apostrophe - but the proprietor's name was
Binns).

--
Peter Beale

Martin Underwood · November 23rd 03, 11:03 PM posted to uk.transport.london

"Peter Beale" wrote in message
o.uk...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

sigh Another sign that English isn't taught well these days. If
you had been brought up in, say, Liverpool or Manchester, you would have
been
very familiar with the large store called Lewis's (different company to
John Lewis).

Elsewhere you would have been exhorted by adverts on trams and buses to
"Shop at Binns" (I think without any apostrophe - but the proprietor's
name was
Binns).

This is analogous to Tesco, W H Smith etc which don't use the possessive
either in their name.

My New Oxford Dictionary of English (OUP, 1998-2001), page 1632, says the
following:

's :- suffix denoting possession in singular nouns, also in plural nouns not
having a final -s: the car's engine | Mrs Ross's son | the children's
teacher

So they actually give an example "Mrs Ross's son" not "Mrs Ross' son",
suggesting that the former is acceptable and/or preferable to the latter.

Peter Beale · November 24th 03, 04:50 PM posted to uk.transport.london

In article m, (Martin Underwood) wrote:

My New Oxford Dictionary of English (OUP, 1998-2001), page 1632, says
the
following:

's :- suffix denoting possession in singular nouns, also in plural
nouns not
having a final -s: the car's engine | Mrs Ross's son | the children's
teacher

So they actually give an example "Mrs Ross's son" not "Mrs Ross' son",
suggesting that the former is acceptable and/or preferable to the
latter.

If we're going to the OUP Dictionary Dept, in the Oxford Guide to English
Usage things are a bit more complicated: the general rule is as above, but...

French names ending in silent s or x add -'s, which is pronounced as z, e.g.
Dumas's, Crémieux's;

Names ending in -es pronounced iz are treated like plurals and take only
an apostrophe, e.g. Bridges', Moses', Hodges', Riches';

Polysyllables not accented on the last or second last syllable can take the
apostrophe alone, but the form with -'s is equally acceptable, e.g.
Barnabas' or Barnabas's, Nicholas' or Nicholas's;

It is the custom in classical works to use the apostrophe only, irrespective
of pronunciation, for ancient classical names ending in -s, e.g. Demosthenes',
Mars', Venus', Xerxes';

Jesus' "is an acceptable liturgical archaism" (Hart's Rules, p31). But in non-
liturgical use, Jesus's is acceptable.

With the possessive preceding the word sake, be guided by the pronunciation,
e.g. for goodness' sake, but for God's sake, for Charles's sake*.

After -x and -z, use -'s, e.g. Ajax's, Berlioz's music, Leibniz's law, Lenz's law.

* Not mentioned there, but NSOED gives either for conscience sake or for
conscience' sake!

--
Peter Beale

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