On Mar 14, 7:19*pm, Paul Terry wrote:

But what is really needed to reduce flights from Heathrow is a direct
train service (HS2) to Edinburgh, Manchester, Glasgow and possibly
Aberdeen, since a very large amount of Heathrow's traffic is actually
domestic.

Do you have figures? That would surprise me.

Neil

On 15 Mar, 09:04, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 06:25:39 on Mon,
15 Mar 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
The figures are from a HACAN report of 2006. I think you're right in
suspecting that they include codeshares - no doubt to bolster their
case
They are so wrong that all they do is invalidate the argument of anyone
relying upon them.

I wouldn't go that far: numerous other authorities give much the same
list of destinations as the most popular from Heathrow, even though the
precise order depends on the counting system used (just departures, or
departures and arrivals, and whether by number of flights or by
passenger numbers).

The point is that, of the most popular destinations, many are domestic,
hence the need for HS2 to serve Heathrow.

If the passengers on the flights to Heathrow are for connections to
further afield, then the proposed solution of changing at Old Oak
Common will actually be as quick as wandering around the airport
especially if it includes changing terminals. Any Heathrow HS2 station
would have to have a second form of transport to get to the terminals,
so most of the 'advantage' would be lost at the cost of delaying
services into central London. The difficult bit will be getting HS2
into the airline booking system to give seamless ticketing. DB seem to
have managed this at Frankfurt for connections from Koln and
Stuttgart.

If the passengers are flying to Heathrow in order to get to London,
then diverting the HS2 through Heathrow will be of no advantage.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
Neil Williams wrote:
On Mar 12, 4:46=A0pm, wrote:

Theres more to it than price though. A lot of people don't like flying an=
d
find the whole airport and security experience unpleasent.

You still get the security "experience" with E*, though. And flying

True, but to me it seems far less oppressive than what you get at the
airport.

e.g. this morning, left home 0425, arrived Luton long-term car park
0505ish, short wait for bus, in terminal 0515, checked bag in and
through security, in cafe enjoying breakfast 0525, boarding 0600,
departure around 0630 (slightly late). Tons of time, and a bit of
slack had it been required. And I find the Luton security bods to be
quite friendly.

Yes, Luton is a nice place to fly from.

B2003

On Mar 15, 10:56*am, Neil Williams wrote:

On Mar 12, 4:46*pm, wrote:
Theres more to it than price though. A lot of people don't like flying and
find the whole airport and security experience unpleasent.

You still get the security "experience" with E*, though. *And flying
from UK regional airports is mostly *far* nicer than from Thiefrow or
Gatwick.

e.g. this morning, left home 0425, arrived Luton long-term car park
0505ish, short wait for bus, in terminal 0515, checked bag in and
through security, in cafe enjoying breakfast 0525, boarding 0600,
departure around 0630 (slightly late). *Tons of time, and a bit of
slack had it been required. *And I find the Luton security bods to be
quite friendly.

FSVO enjoying breakfast at 0525! (I'm not a natural early morning
person!).

By the by, my recent trips through Gatwick have been ok.

On Mar 15, 12:24*pm, wrote:

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
Neil *Williams wrote:

On Mar 12, 4:46pm, wrote:
Theres more to it than price though. A lot of people don't like flying
and find the whole airport and security experience unpleasent.

You still get the security "experience" with E*, though. *And flying

True, but to me it seems far less oppressive than what you get at the
airport.

Agreed.

In message
, at
03:56:02 on Mon, 15 Mar 2010, Neil Williams
remarked:
e.g. this morning, left home 0425, arrived Luton long-term car park
0505ish, short wait for bus, in terminal 0515, checked bag in and
through security, in cafe enjoying breakfast 0525, boarding 0600,
departure around 0630 (slightly late). Tons of time, and a bit of
slack had it been required. And I find the Luton security bods to be
quite friendly.

Yesterday afternoon I arrived at the station (by car [1]) and got on a
bendy-bus which left a few minutes later. I'd checked in online and
there were only two people ahead of me in the security queue. The
longest wait was at the airside bar where the tender was going for a
world record how-long-does-it-take, to make two cups of coffee for the
only other customer.

At East Midlands airport it's routine for me to arrive an hour before
departure, five minutes walk from the mid-term carpark to security, then
anything from zero to twenty minutes [2] for x-ray, and another couple
of minutes walk (much less than Luton) to the gate.

But I would allow two hours if flying on a charter airline and needing
to check luggage.

[1] I'm flying back to Stansted, then arriving at the airport station by
train from London.

[2] And if necessary £3 would get a "fast-track" pass.
--
Roland Perry

In message
, at
04:44:29 on Mon, 15 Mar 2010, Andy remarked:
If the passengers on the flights to Heathrow are for connections to
further afield, then the proposed solution of changing at Old Oak
Common will actually be as quick as wandering around the airport
especially if it includes changing terminals. Any Heathrow HS2 station
would have to have a second form of transport to get to the terminals,

Well spotted! So OOC is really "Heathrow East" and whatever
Crosslink/HEx/Connect is called by then is your shuttle to the
appropriate terminal.
--
Roland Perry

On Mar 15, 3:55*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
04:44:29 on Mon, 15 Mar 2010, Andy remarked:

If the passengers on the flights to Heathrow are for connections to
further afield, then the proposed solution of changing at Old Oak
Common will actually be as quick as wandering around the airport
especially if it includes changing terminals. Any Heathrow HS2 station
would have to have a second form of transport to get to the terminals,

Well spotted! So OOC is really "Heathrow East" and whatever
Crosslink/HEx/Connect is called by then is your shuttle to the
appropriate terminal.

Yes, I recall someone suggesting that OOC would in effect be Terminal
6.

On Mar 15, 4:50*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

But I would allow two hours if flying on a charter airline and needing
to check luggage.

Currently, people largely haven't realised that you can now check in
online and check in luggage on easyJet, and so the "bag drop" queue is
always short. But, once they do, Speedy Boarding offers you a
dedicated check-in desk that pretty much allows you to arrive at Luton
at the same time you would with hand luggage only and still check a
bag in. Another hour in bed when going for an 0625 is *definitely*
worth 8 quid (or whatever it costs now).

LTN has its faults, but it's definitely a better experience than
Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted (though the latter is the lesser of the
3 evils). The only thing that tends to cause big delays is passport
control, and the auto gates are likely to help that somewhat once they
are in reliable operation.

Neil

In message
, at
02:14:07 on Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Neil Williams
remarked:
On Mar 15, 4:50*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

But I would allow two hours if flying on a charter airline and needing
to check luggage.

Currently, people largely haven't realised that you can now check in
online and check in luggage on easyJet, and so the "bag drop" queue is
always short.

That may not last long (if the airport is generally busy - when I was at
Luton on Sunday the massive check-in hall was virtually empty, with just
two desks open and a handful of people checking in; I've also seen it
almost full!) which has been my experience with BA, their "fast" bag
drop being anything but.

But, once they do, Speedy Boarding offers you a dedicated check-in desk
that pretty much allows you to arrive at Luton at the same time you
would with hand luggage only and still check a bag in. Another hour in
bed when going for an 0625 is *definitely* worth 8 quid (or whatever it
costs now).

I agree, if you can predict it's busy. I obviously have a little cloud
following me around... only used Speedyboarding check-in once, at
Gatwick, and it had a longer queue than the regular check-ins.

LTN has its faults, but it's definitely a better experience than
Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted (though the latter is the lesser of the
3 evils). The only thing that tends to cause big delays is passport
control, and the auto gates are likely to help that somewhat once they
are in reliable operation.

The autogates are quite slow. I have a fear that all they will do is
allow the employment of fewer people (they've been striking over cuts
recently) without reducing the waiting times.

Similarly, the IRIS gates are a bit of a sideshow - so unreliable it
takes about a minute per person, and even then quite a few rejects. If
there are more than a handful of people waiting it's quicker to use the
normal channels.
--
Roland Perry