Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and
Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced
frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a
25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the
route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then
double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I
wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it
effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's
busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at
the latest.

Martin

"Martin Whelton" wrote in message
om...
Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and
Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced
frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a
25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the
route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then
double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I
wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it
effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's
busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at
the latest.

Peter Hendy, Managing Director, Surface Transport, says it all.

Roger

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:06:23 +0000 (UTC), "Bluestars"
wrote:


"Martin Whelton" wrote in message
. com...
Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and
Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced
frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a
25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the
route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then
double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I
wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it
effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's
busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at
the latest.

Peter Hendy, Managing Director, Surface Transport, says it all.

Roger

What does he say?

If you mean that 'Surface Transport' says it all then that's not
clear.

The Surface Transport directorate covers:

a) Buses (London Buses)
b) Bus Priority - funding and engineering the schemes.
c) All of London's traffic signals
d) The Transport for London Road Network
e) Walking and cycling schemes across London
f) Congestion Charging
g) Enforcement (bus lane cameras, on bus cameras, speed and red light
cameras)
h) London River Services
i) Victoria Coach Station
j) Contract management for Croydon Tramlink.


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

I suspect Bluestars point is the omission from your list of (k).....
A somewhat unhealthy prediliction for the Articulated Bus products of
Mercedes Benz Gmbh coupled with,
(l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall Refurbishment
programme resulted in a very cost-effective and efficiently engineered PCV
capable of meeting or exceeding present performance standards WITHOUT
recourse to additional and highly questionable supports (ie: Cashless
Boarding aka Revenue Free Transport).
Maybe others can fill in the remaining slots from (m) to (z)........ : )

"Billy" wrote the following in:


(l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall
Refurbishment programme resulted in a very cost-effective and
efficiently engineered PCV

What is/was the Marshall Refurbishment programme?

--
message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith.
Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing".

Then and than are different words!

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:52:46 -0000, "Billy"
wrote:

I suspect Bluestars point is the omission from your list of (k).....
A somewhat unhealthy prediliction for the Articulated Bus products of
Mercedes Benz Gmbh coupled with,
(l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall Refurbishment
programme resulted in a very cost-effective and efficiently engineered PCV
capable of meeting or exceeding present performance standards

except the refurb won't give you an accessible bus....

WITHOUT
recourse to additional and highly questionable supports (ie: Cashless
Boarding aka Revenue Free Transport).

I think you'll find that the revenue regime is changing:

New posts managing revenue inspections:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk./tfl/jobs/jobs-tfl-tped-2.shtml

I also know (I admit tor working for TfL) that there are plans to
increase the revenue inspection.

Maybe others can fill in the remaining slots from (m) to (z)........ : )


--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

I used to work route 73 albeit on Sundays only when it was one person only
operated. I think bendibuses are an excellent idea as they are extremely
quick to load and unload compared with routemasters.

--
Remove "0" from from daveb07890 to reply
"Martin Whelton" wrote in message
om...
Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and
Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham) at a reduced
frequency and the veichle requirement will be reduced from 55 to 41, a
25% reduction though part of this is due to the curtailing of the
route. Akthough Bendi buses cater for larger number of people then
double deck RML's, nevertheless it is effectively a cut in capacity, I
wonder to anyone on the group have any veiws on the annoucement as it
effectively spells the end of Routemasters in London(this was it's
busiest route) and it looks they will be all off the road by 2006 at
the latest.

Martin

Yes David,but only if they are operating under the Cashless 3 Door Boarding
system.
My point is that if the Citaro is operated on the same system as a
Routemaster,ie:cash Fares collected then the "Advantages" tend to
evaporate.
The problem with TfL`s introduction of Cashless Operation is that it has NOT
been accompanied by the very necessary increase in Revenue Inspection and
Roving Supervision.
Rob Wooley`s previous post re planned increases in Rev Pro resources
confirms how wrong TfL have got this one.
Once the Revenue Collection system is compromised in the Travelling Public`s
eye it then becomes far more difficult to re-impose the required degree of
compliance.
On my two most recent visits to Londres I witnessed intending pax being
waved through on both an RV 1 and on a 527 because thay proffessed to having
some form of difficulty with the Off Bus ticketing machines.
Now it is not these individual pax concerned that TfL need be concerned
about but the many other pax already on the buses concerned who were a
receptive audience indeed to a short play about Free Travel......
And while I am about it Bob Wooley (Who admits to working for TfL.....Well
somebody`s gotta do it ?) is only partially correct in Town Crying the TfL
line on "Accessibility" where the Routemaster is concerned.
Its a matter of opinion really as to whether a Considerately Conducted
Routemaster is any worse than a modern One Person Operated Low Floor Double
Decker for MOST people up to and including those classed as "Moderately"
disabled.
I am aware of some discussions in which many ambulatory but infirm folks
remain resolutely in favour of the Routemaster TPO especially in its
refurbished guise with DipTAC Stanchions and Brighter Interior lighting.....
I am not an Anorak in this matter,as I am well aware of areas where the
Routemaster does fall short of modern practice BUT the Standard of service
capabable of being performed by the Refurbished vehicles remains on or above
par with even the most modern LFDD designs.
I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to sell
us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation utilising
the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a
well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....?????

"Billy" wrote in message ...
I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to sell
us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation utilising
the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a
well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....?????

You're missing the point. Routemasters allow passengers to get on and
off where
they please. As this is of obvious benefit to the passenger and
requires passengers to behave like adults and not run into the path of
an oncoming truck
it cannot be allowed to continue. Hence the standard option of buses
with doors
that won't open until the driver is within 10 foot of the stop (even
if he's
stuck in stationary traffic 50 meters away and 50 ****ed off people
want to
get off) must be put in its place. I'm amazed in fact that the HSE
didn't
ban routemasters long ago , its the sort of thing those bedwetters
love to do.

B2003

Billy, I appreciate the time you've taken in replying to my post. And there
is no way I can comment on DipTac requirements, neither do I have any
knowledge on the effectiveness of Revenue Inspectors and Roving supervision.
A comparison with the French bus system which as you probably know is also
cashless, is not possible as the network is nowhere near as extensive as
ours. All I can comment on is 'In service' observations comparing
Routemasters and the Citaro's which is what I will attempt to do here.

First of all I think a lot of work has been done to increase both the number
and reliability of off-bus ticketing machines. They seem to be located at
every stop and at major stops there are more than one of them. From limited
observation the Revenue Inspection seems to be most effective when a group
of Inspectors accompanied by police officers 'swoop' on a bus stopping it
until all passengers tickets are checked. And I have to say some Inspectors
do not help themselves in their heavy handed "I am God" approach. One of my
passengers came downstairs and told me that if the Inspector spoke like that
to him again he would 'clobber him one'..... the passenger concerned had a
valid ticket.

I agree that a well conducted routemaster is better than a one person
operated low floor double decker, but a Citaro Artic is better than a
routemaster by virtue of it being single decked and having 3 large
entrance/exits. Its dwell time at stops when at or near full capacity is
better than a double decked vehicle be it routemaster or lowfloor bus. I now
operate a National Express service into London every day and am very
impressed by how little time a Citaro spends at stops. On the other hand I
know how lazy some bus conductors can be, the tactic seems to be delaying
the right away signal so the end up late before their break (thereby gaining
an overtime payment) and as a result of late running reduced mileage will be
operated on the second half of the duty. Also I cannot stress the amount of
stress Routemasters cause when Tourists use them in places like Oxford
Street. I have seen many fall off as they attempt to get on/off inbetween
stops.

--
Remove "0" from from daveb07890 to reply
"Billy" wrote in message
...
Yes David,but only if they are operating under the Cashless 3 Door
Boarding
system.
My point is that if the Citaro is operated on the same system as a
Routemaster,ie:cash Fares collected then the "Advantages" tend to
evaporate.
The problem with TfL`s introduction of Cashless Operation is that it has
NOT
been accompanied by the very necessary increase in Revenue Inspection and
Roving Supervision.
Rob Wooley`s previous post re planned increases in Rev Pro resources
confirms how wrong TfL have got this one.
Once the Revenue Collection system is compromised in the Travelling
Public`s
eye it then becomes far more difficult to re-impose the required degree of
compliance.
On my two most recent visits to Londres I witnessed intending pax being
waved through on both an RV 1 and on a 527 because thay proffessed to
having
some form of difficulty with the Off Bus ticketing machines.
Now it is not these individual pax concerned that TfL need be concerned
about but the many other pax already on the buses concerned who were a
receptive audience indeed to a short play about Free Travel......
And while I am about it Bob Wooley (Who admits to working for TfL.....Well
somebody`s gotta do it ?) is only partially correct in Town Crying the TfL
line on "Accessibility" where the Routemaster is concerned.
Its a matter of opinion really as to whether a Considerately Conducted
Routemaster is any worse than a modern One Person Operated Low Floor
Double
Decker for MOST people up to and including those classed as "Moderately"
disabled.
I am aware of some discussions in which many ambulatory but infirm folks
remain resolutely in favour of the Routemaster TPO especially in its
refurbished guise with DipTAC Stanchions and Brighter Interior
lighting.....
I am not an Anorak in this matter,as I am well aware of areas where the
Routemaster does fall short of modern practice BUT the Standard of service
capabable of being performed by the Refurbished vehicles remains on or
above
par with even the most modern LFDD designs.
I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to
sell
us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation
utilising
the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a
well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....?????