"Rob" _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message
...

Snip

This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance,
that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been
told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period.

Rob

Ah-ha - so it sounds as if TfL have not got full co-operation from all the
TOC's yet. Maybe certain TOCs are holding out to see if TfL will stump up
the cash for the readers?

Colin

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:56:36 -0000, "Colin"
wrote:


"Rob" _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message
.. .

Snip

This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance,
that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been
told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period.

Rob

Ah-ha - so it sounds as if TfL have not got full co-operation from all the
TOC's yet. Maybe certain TOCs are holding out to see if TfL will stump up
the cash for the readers?

Well I was involved in talking to the TOCs in the early stages of
Prestige (Oyster). Some like C2C were very keen as they were going gated
anyway. Others were downright hostile. I think the balance may have
tilted a bit given how many are using ticket gates.

TfL cannot afford to pay for equipping all TOC gates and actually has no
obligation to do so except at Joint Stations where the Tube stops as
well. Even there though the discussion will be about mutual benefit
because the TOCs will gain benefits from employing Oyster technology.
The record card (or Inspection Ticket as I called it in the spec) was
always envisaged because there was always the possibility of there being
a station where a Travelcard was valid but where gates would never be
justified - e.g Sudbury Hill and Harrow on the Chiltern Line. There are
LUL / ATOC agreements that govern ticketing technology changes as well
as Travelcard, apportionment and Through Ticketing.

Quite what has been agreed with the TOCs and how it is being funded now
I do not know. I would expect that interesting discussions are going on
given TfL's policies about Overground and also the plan to equate the
fare scales between National Rail and LUL / Docklands (subject to
funding from govt). Once that happens you can expect Oyster and Pre-Pay
in particular to be required London wide using gates or validators (as
installed at certain LUL and all DLR stns).
--
Paul C
Admits to Working for London Underground!

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:47:34 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:56:36 -0000, "Colin"
wrote:


"Rob" _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message
. ..

Snip

This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance,
that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been
told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period.

Rob

Ah-ha - so it sounds as if TfL have not got full co-operation from all the
TOC's yet. Maybe certain TOCs are holding out to see if TfL will stump up
the cash for the readers?

Well I was involved in talking to the TOCs in the early stages of
Prestige (Oyster). Some like C2C were very keen as they were going gated
anyway. Others were downright hostile. I think the balance may have
tilted a bit given how many are using ticket gates.

TfL cannot afford to pay for equipping all TOC gates and actually has no
obligation to do so except at Joint Stations where the Tube stops as
well. Even there though the discussion will be about mutual benefit
because the TOCs will gain benefits from employing Oyster technology.
The record card (or Inspection Ticket as I called it in the spec) was
always envisaged because there was always the possibility of there being
a station where a Travelcard was valid but where gates would never be
justified - e.g Sudbury Hill and Harrow on the Chiltern Line. There are
LUL / ATOC agreements that govern ticketing technology changes as well
as Travelcard, apportionment and Through Ticketing.

Quite what has been agreed with the TOCs and how it is being funded now
I do not know. I would expect that interesting discussions are going on
given TfL's policies about Overground and also the plan to equate the
fare scales between National Rail and LUL / Docklands (subject to
funding from govt). Once that happens you can expect Oyster and Pre-Pay
in particular to be required London wide using gates or validators (as
installed at certain LUL and all DLR stns).

I have (s*d's law) just noticed my mistake: it's the RPIs who were
advised to show "maximum discretion", I'm sure the faredodgers are
using their discretion already!

Rob

Rob _rjayjaycox_at_nildram_dot_co_dot_uk_nodot wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:50:08 -0000, "Colin"
wrote:

snipped, with apologies

However the advise I read for buses was along the lines 'on buses with
on-board crew simply show your Oystercard for the time being', the
assumption being that upgraded personal ticket machines with handheld
scanners were not far off.

This sounds correct to me. I have it on good authority, for instance,
that passengers with Oyster at NR stations without readers have been
told to show 'extreme discretion' during the teething period.

Rob

According to oyster helpline NR staff have been told that if the
oyster cannot be read it is to be accepted unconditionally as being
valid. I suppose this is more or less the same as extreme discretion
in practice.
HTH Phil

"Phil" wrote in message
m...

According to oyster helpline NR staff have been told that
if the oyster cannot be read it is to be
accepted unconditionally as being valid.

Unbelievable! So all you have to do is break it and you have a free
open-ended travelcard!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , John Rowland
writes
"Phil" wrote in message
om...

According to oyster helpline NR staff have been told that
if the oyster cannot be read it is to be
accepted unconditionally as being valid.

Unbelievable! So all you have to do is break it and you have a free
open-ended travelcard!

Sigh
You lot are always complaining that the present system labels all
passengers as criminals; now you're being given the benefit of the doubt
and you're still not happy....
--
Kat Frogs have it easy. They can eat what bugs them.

I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the internet
a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There
was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me.

JP


"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Boothroyd wrote:
I've never had any problem with getting an Oyster accepted by conductors
on RM buses before. Anyone know whether the conductor was right?

I'm fairly sure that the conductor was wrong. I have also never seen
anyone
check a record card sufficently well to mean anything.

I've paid for a travelcard which is valid for all buses and I'm damn
well
not going to restrict myself to the ones with Oyster readers. It's TFL's
problem if they can't check my ticket.

I concur.


--
Good night little fishey-wishes.... I've counted you, so no
sneaky eating each other.
-- FW (should I worry?)

I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the internet
a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There
was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me.


I bought a weekly at Kings Cross Met line ticket office, got the Oyster
card, a blue wallet and a credit card receipt only. I presume therefore
that I don't have a Record Card either, whatever one of those might be!

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:25:24 +0000 (UTC), "J. Public"
wrote:

I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the internet
a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There
was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me.

Same here. There was a reference in the documentation that an RC
should be enclosed, but I didn't get one. Also noticed that the
credit card receipts one gets using the big machines at Tube stations
aren't much use, as they only show the date of the transaction, which
isn't much use if you're renewing a Travelcard a few days in advance.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:25:24 +0000 (UTC), "J. Public"
wrote:

I don't think I even have a record card. Purchased a weekly on the
internet
a month ago, and it came in a blue DVD type case, but that was it. There
was an invoice, but surely I shouldn't have to carry that round with me.

Same here. There was a reference in the documentation that an RC
should be enclosed, but I didn't get one. Also noticed that the
credit card receipts one gets using the big machines at Tube stations
aren't much use, as they only show the date of the transaction, which
isn't much use if you're renewing a Travelcard a few days in advance.

The ticket machines DO issue a record card as well as a credit card receipt.