In message , Richard J.
writes
The journey from Cockfosters to Arnos is a bit of a chore sometimes.
During the morning peak (and leading up to it) you will have trains
coming in to service from Cockfosters (east end), Cockfosters (west end)
and reversers at Arnos Grove, all to get the 28 trains per hour through
the centre section.

A mere 24 trains per hour currently. You ought to be able to manage 28
IMHO. In fact you had a 27 tph timetable a few years ago, and I never
had a credible explanation of why it was abandoned. I fail to see why
the Picc can't do better than 24 tph when the District/Circle does 28
despite the extra complications of its network.

Ooh, I'm not getting into this one other than I accept it's not 28 (it
was a guess on my part as I haven't actually counted them); next you'll
be telling me we should stop at Turnham Green all day though
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On 27/04/2010 14:13, d wrote:

I'd have thought these "professionals" as they keep referring to themselves

**** off, Boltar. The LUL staff in this group are a major asset to the
rest of us. You are not.

On 27/04/2010 14:21, Basil Jet wrote:
On 27/04/2010 14:13, d wrote:

I'd have thought these "professionals" as they keep referring to
themselves

**** off, Boltar. The LUL staff in this group are a major asset to the
rest of us. You are not.

And why don't you tell us why LUL refused your job application... for
being too much of a professional, perhaps?

On Apr 27, 2:13*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 11:46:15 +0100

"Recliner" wrote:
So you're telling me they have no idea of which train is leaving
when? What do they do , just go and sit in a cab and wait until the
signal goes green then? Come off it.

The driver is much less interested in this subject than you are -- he's
not in a race with the other train, and doesn't really care which goes
first. So why would he do anything other than show up on time, and wait
till it's his turn to head down the tunnel?

Well airline pilots are apparently aware of their booked departure times.
So are bus drivers. And mainline train drivers. Are you seriously
suggesting tube drivers simply wait for the green light and head off?
I'd have thought these "professionals" as they keep referring to themselves
as would be well aware of the times their trains should leave.

B2003

Yes as a tube driver I am fully aware of what time my train is due to
leave. However, without reaching down into my bag, opening up a
timetable, finding the correct page, looking at the numbers of the
train in the other platforms and then checking these numbers to the
timetable I would have no idea which train would be leaving first. By
the time this is done the other train i due to leave first would
probably have left anyway. To be fair at Cockfosters there is a sign
that clearly tells passengers to wait until the first train is
indicated. Having said that I know there have been occasions where
trains are given a green signal without any indication on the platform
describers. That generally happens though when there has been a
problem on the line and trains are being controlled manually as
opposed to by computer. In these instances drivers can be just as much
in the dark as the passengers with regards to the first departure.

In message , Basil Jet
writes

I'd have thought these "professionals" as they keep referring to
themselves

**** off, Boltar. The LUL staff in this group are a major asset to the
rest of us. You are not.

And why don't you tell us why LUL refused your job application... for
being too much of a professional, perhaps?

Did they?

Sorry, I shouldn't laugh....
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:21:46 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 27/04/2010 14:13, d wrote:

I'd have thought these "professionals" as they keep referring to themselves

**** off, Boltar. The LUL staff in this group are a major asset to the
rest of us. You are not.

LOL

Ah , I needed a good laugh this afternoon, cheers for that!

B2003

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:25:55 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
And why don't you tell us why LUL refused your job application... for
being too much of a professional, perhaps?

Why would I apply to be a button pushing chimp? I've never applied to LUL
in my life and have no plans to. Sorry if you thought you'd got one over on me
but too bad, you didn't.

B2003

On 27 Apr, 11:46, "Recliner" wrote:
wrote in message



On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 19:55:33 +0100
"michael adams" wrote:
Even if the driver of one train does know his own departure time,
rather than waiting on a signal, how is he supposed to be certain of
the departure time of the other train ? And to know for certain
whether it's due to leave first or not ?

So you're telling me they have no idea of which train is leaving
when? What do they do , just go and sit in a cab and wait until the
signal goes green then? Come off it.

The driver is much less interested in this subject than you are -- he's
not in a race with the other train, and doesn't really care which goes
first. So why would he do anything other than show up on time, and wait
till it's his turn to head down the tunnel?

A classic case of unjoined up railways. Having been involved on the
customer side of things, very much involved in the info side and now
ops I am very aware of the crossover between the mix being very
blurred indeed. It's historic and it ain't going to change overnight,
BUT there really is a lot of thought going into stuff like this.

As an example, the systems used by most ops staff to monitor trains is
very passive and requires constant monitoring to see that a train is
stationary, or wiat for the train to move before it flashes as a
delay. Wheras some CIS systems generate alarms for trains that have
occupied a berth longer than expected.

So the Retail have better info than ops !

In this case, and I have used Cockfosters a few times, in the absence
of a member of staff with a screen with TDs and timetabe data we rely
on CIS and if this relies on digits being input early by signallers /
controllers or the CIS being made more robust then this MUST be made
to happen. But - it costs - until the amount of money spet dealing
with the complaints gets bigger than fixing the problem, it will stay
the same way. And thats a lot of complaints.


Richard

In message
, Fat
richard writes

In this case, and I have used Cockfosters a few times, in the absence
of a member of staff with a screen with TDs and timetabe data we rely
on CIS and if this relies on digits being input early by signallers /
controllers or the CIS being made more robust then this MUST be made to
happen. But - it costs - until the amount of money spet dealing with
the complaints gets bigger than fixing the problem, it will stay the
same way. And thats a lot of complaints.

The TDs at CFS are driven from the program machines (affectionately
known as Metal Mickey) which date from (I think) the 1980s when a
partial re-signalling was done from Turnpike Lane to Cockfosters. There
is no human interaction that I'm aware of and they do the best they can.

There will be no more (serious) money spent on the signalling until the
Big Upgrade in a few years so we're stuck with what we have for now.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On 27/04/2010 17:16, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message
, Fat
richard writes

In this case, and I have used Cockfosters a few times, in the absence
of a member of staff with a screen with TDs and timetabe data we rely
on CIS and if this relies on digits being input early by signallers /
controllers or the CIS being made more robust then this MUST be made
to happen. But - it costs - until the amount of money spet dealing
with the complaints gets bigger than fixing the problem, it will stay
the same way. And thats a lot of complaints.

The TDs at CFS are driven from the program machines (affectionately
known as Metal Mickey) which date from (I think) the 1980s when a
partial re-signalling was done from Turnpike Lane to Cockfosters. There
is no human interaction that I'm aware of and they do the best they can.

There will be no more (serious) money spent on the signalling until the
Big Upgrade in a few years so we're stuck with what we have for now.
What's the Big Upgrade?