deja user wrote:
In terms of legal cases, here's something I'd love to hear your
opinions on:

Was driving just outside the congestion charging zone, and had to turn
the car around. Dipped into a small alley, came out and went on my way
in the opposite direction. I didn't know if I'd been in the zone or
not when I u-ied the car (was a little bit lost).

You mean you were not paying sufficient attention to see whether there were
any "C" signs at the entrance to this "alleyway"? Are you sure you didn't
go through any red lights or down one-way streets the wrong way as well?

So... simple enough,
called up TFL and this is how the conversation went:

Me : Excuse me, I don't know what to do, I may have entered the
congestion charging zone, but I can't be sure. Can you tell me if I
have been or not?

TFL: I'm sorry, but we don't have that information.
snip

I'm sure from a jurisprudence perspective, this is illegal.

Why are you sure? What law do you think is being broken?

I think it's time someone took TFL to court and addressed these
issues. I'm happy to pay my charge, but it's anathema to me to have to
pay for a service I may have not used under duress.

Not sure where the duress comes in. You failed to notice whether you
entered the zone. Hardly TfL's fault.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Richard J." wrote in message ...
deja user wrote:
In terms of legal cases, here's something I'd love to hear your
opinions on:

Was driving just outside the congestion charging zone, and had to turn
the car around. Dipped into a small alley, came out and went on my way
in the opposite direction. I didn't know if I'd been in the zone or
not when I u-ied the car (was a little bit lost).

You mean you were not paying sufficient attention to see whether there were
any "C" signs at the entrance to this "alleyway"? Are you sure you didn't
go through any red lights or down one-way streets the wrong way as well?

So... simple enough,
called up TFL and this is how the conversation went:

Me : Excuse me, I don't know what to do, I may have entered the
congestion charging zone, but I can't be sure. Can you tell me if I
have been or not?

TFL: I'm sorry, but we don't have that information.
snip

I'm sure from a jurisprudence perspective, this is illegal.

Why are you sure? What law do you think is being broken?

I think it's time someone took TFL to court and addressed these
issues. I'm happy to pay my charge, but it's anathema to me to have to
pay for a service I may have not used under duress.

Not sure where the duress comes in. You failed to notice whether you
entered the zone. Hardly TfL's fault.

I agree with Richard, although I do understand if you are lost in
London it may be all too easy to make a mistake, take the wrong
turning and enter the zone. It is TfL's responsibility to put the
correct signs at the zone boundary. However, it is the driver's
responsibility to learn the meaning of ALL traffic signs - and keep an
eye out for them. Not noticing them, or not knowing the meaning is no
defence.

TfL would not be able to confirm whether you had entered the zone
unless your number plate was read by a camera. But you were still
liable for the charge from the moment you crossed the boundary,
whether you were photographed or not.

You mean you were not paying sufficient attention to see whether there were
any "C" signs at the entrance to this "alleyway"? Are you sure you didn't
go through any red lights or down one-way streets the wrong way as well?

While I don't appreciate the tone of your reply, when I get lost
sometimes (and I still do in parts of London), I'm not 100 focused on
looking for the "C" signs. Fortunately, I do keep an eye out for red
lights and one-way signs, pedestrians etc. I don't think the "C" ranks
on the same scale in terms of importance. I'm sure if you took a look
around the zone, there would not be 100% complete coverage if you were
taking the very small roads into account.

I'm sure from a jurisprudence perspective, this is illegal.

Why are you sure? What law do you think is being broken?

I said jurisprudence, maybe I was using the wrong word. Basically in
principle, I am confident that this is illegal (to say to someone that
they have to pay up or pay a fine, but if they have not used the
service, that they're entitled to no refund). I was expecting the lady
to say she'd make a note on the account, and if it turned out I hadn't
used the service I'd receive a refund on my credit card.

I think it's time someone took TFL to court and addressed these
issues. I'm happy to pay my charge, but it's anathema to me to have to
pay for a service I may have not used under duress.

Not sure where the duress comes in. You failed to notice whether you
entered the zone. Hardly TfL's fault.

Touche. If I were to adopt the same line of argument, I could argue
that TfL have not put up a sufficient number of notices etc that I as
a driver, while paying due attention to pedestrians, red lights, and
one-way-signals could take notice of the "C". Of course, that's just
me being childish in response to your rather sarcastic reply. Duress
is that if you don't pay now, you pay £40 later, even if you don't
know whether you've been in the zone or not.

I think the system is good, but monthly billing, and a fairer approach
towards matters of the above mentioned nature are in order. We're
innocent till proven guilty in this country, why should I have to pay
a charge for a service I may not have used?