On Fri, 14 May 2010 03:16:06 -0700 (PDT)
PhilD wrote:
Different signalling systems and method of safe operation. There's
more to it than train/tunnel size.

But the onboard signalling system could be changed. You can't do much about
the size of the train through.

B2003

On 14/05/2010 08:55, peter wrote:
I travelled on one today, and was not impressed.

The good points - bright lighting, smoother ride, more standing space

But the downside of the last point is less seating space. The seating
follows the current fashion of being all sideways, which personally I
detest. Crabs evolved to travel sideways, humans go forwards.
Another drawback is that is much harder to see out of the window. Now
I know that isn't an issue on the Victoria Line, which is all
underground, but on other lines which do have surface sections it adds
to the frustrations of travel. The seats themselves seem to have been
designed for midgets, with inadequate depth for an average sized adult
male and very thin upholstery.

Some tube journeys can be quite long - I have a regular trip between
Totteridge and Whetstone and South Wimbledon which takes one hour ten
minutes, and I wish transport chiefs would pay a little more attention
to the comfort of such passengers rather than basing the designs on
the needs of short distance commuters only.

Peter



Noticed signs announcing their arrival at various tube stations today,
but I could not quite make out the schedule on which they will introduce
them into revenue service.

Did they say every two weeks a new stretch will enter service?

Also, when will saw farewell to the 67 stock and what is their fate to be?

On 14/05/2010 09:47, Recliner wrote:
wrote in message

I travelled on one today, and was not impressed.

The good points - bright lighting, smoother ride, more standing space

But the downside of the last point is less seating space. The seating
follows the current fashion of being all sideways, which personally I
detest. Crabs evolved to travel sideways, humans go forwards.
Another drawback is that is much harder to see out of the window. Now
I know that isn't an issue on the Victoria Line, which is all
underground, but on other lines which do have surface sections it adds
to the frustrations of travel. The seats themselves seem to have been
designed for midgets, with inadequate depth for an average sized adult
male and very thin upholstery.

Some tube journeys can be quite long - I have a regular trip between
Totteridge and Whetstone and South Wimbledon which takes one hour ten
minutes, and I wish transport chiefs would pay a little more attention
to the comfort of such passengers rather than basing the designs on
the needs of short distance commuters only.

Of course, most Victoria Line journeys are short, and all are entirely
underground. The 2009 stock can't operate on any other Tube line, and
nor will it be the basis for the replacement Piccadilly Line stock
(which is likely to be based on the current Northern Line stock). I
think the limited, harder, mainly/entirely longitudinal seating will be
more of a problem with the new S stock, which will often be used for
much longer journeys on the District and Met lines.


Any idea when and where we might catch sight of/see the S stock?

On 14 May, 23:16, "
wrote:
On 14/05/2010 09:47, Recliner wrote:

*wrote in message

I travelled on one today, and was not impressed.

The good points - bright lighting, smoother ride, more standing space

But the downside of the last point is less seating space. *The seating
follows the current fashion of being all sideways, which personally I
detest. *Crabs evolved to travel sideways, humans go forwards.
Another drawback is that is much harder to see out of the window. Now
I know that isn't an issue on the Victoria Line, which is all
underground, but on other lines which do have surface sections it adds
to the frustrations of travel. *The seats themselves seem to have been
designed for midgets, with inadequate depth for an average sized adult
male and very thin upholstery.

Some tube journeys can be quite long - I have a regular trip between
Totteridge and Whetstone and South Wimbledon which takes one hour ten
minutes, and I wish transport chiefs would pay a little more attention
to the comfort of such passengers rather than basing the designs on
the needs of short distance commuters only.

Of course, most Victoria Line journeys are short, and all are entirely
underground. The 2009 stock can't operate on any other Tube line, and
nor will it be the basis for the replacement Piccadilly Line stock
(which is likely to be based on the current Northern Line stock). I
think the limited, harder, mainly/entirely longitudinal seating will be
more of a problem with the new S stock, which will often be used for
much longer journeys on the District and Met lines.

Any idea when and where we might catch sight of/see the S stock?

They've been running for a while now. A couple of times I've got a
platform to see one departing. Not managed to travel on one yet. Last
I heard, there were 5 sets running (out of how many I don't know).
Don't know if they run specific diagrams either. If so, you might
catch one southbound from Oxford Circus at about 8am.

"Stu" wrote in message

On 14 May, 23:16, "
wrote:
On 14/05/2010 09:47, Recliner wrote:


Of course, most Victoria Line journeys are short, and all are
entirely underground. The 2009 stock can't operate on any other
Tube line, and nor will it be the basis for the replacement
Piccadilly Line stock (which is likely to be based on the current
Northern Line stock). I think the limited, harder, mainly/entirely
longitudinal seating will be more of a problem with the new S
stock, which will often be used for much longer journeys on the
District and Met lines.

Any idea when and where we might catch sight of/see the S stock?

They've been running for a while now. A couple of times I've got a
platform to see one departing. Not managed to travel on one yet. Last
I heard, there were 5 sets running (out of how many I don't know).
Don't know if they run specific diagrams either. If so, you might
catch one southbound from Oxford Circus at about 8am.

No, no S stock trains are in service yet, and they'd need to go on a
starvation diet to squeeze their way down to Oxford Street. I believe
that there is one S stock test train in London, but don't know if it
even has seats fitted. I think they begin to enter service on the
District Line next year.

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:27:36 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

No, no S stock trains are in service yet, and they'd need to go on a
starvation diet to squeeze their way down to Oxford Street. I believe
that there is one S stock test train in London, but don't know if it
even has seats fitted. I think they begin to enter service on the
District Line next year.

The second train arrived last week - we had an internal bulletin to
tell us. The first train most certainly does have seats in it but
covered over because of the test equipment. Coupling tests and other
things will be done now there are two trains delivered.

S Stock is due to start service on the Met this summer so not very
long. This is why there has been all the activity at Aldgate and
Baker St and elsewhere - getting the infrastructure ready.

Good, I take it that the longer S Stock trains now fit into the Baker St
terminating platforms. It must be quite a tight fit. And have the
issues of stabling the longer trains at Hammersmith also been resolved?

I know that there were issues that would concern Amersham man: fewer
trains (because some would go to Chesham instead), with fewer seats.
Presumably nothing can be done about these? And has Amersham man had a
chance to try the new seats?

I know the S stock has higher performance, but I expect that this can't
be used until all the A stock has gone? And extra frequency presumably
depends on the delayed new signalling.

In message of Sun, 16 May 2010
12:05:08 in uk.transport.london, Recliner
writes

[snip]


Good, I take it that the longer S Stock trains now fit into the Baker St
terminating platforms. It must be quite a tight fit. And have the
issues of stabling the longer trains at Hammersmith also been resolved?

I don't know about Hammersmith stabling. At the station, there are new
gates, the ATMs are gone, the Ticket Office should, by now, have been
replaced by a bank of machines and be knocked down to allow longer
platforms. I think the overbridges means extension at the other end
would be more costly.
--
Walter Briscoe

On 14 May, 09:47, "Recliner" wrote:
"peter" wrote in message





I travelled on one today, and was not impressed.

The good points - bright lighting, smoother ride, more standing space

But the downside of the last point is less seating space. *The seating
follows the current fashion of being all sideways, which personally I
detest. *Crabs evolved to travel sideways, humans go forwards.
Another drawback is that is much harder to see out of the window. Now
I know that isn't an issue on the Victoria Line, which is all
underground, but on other lines which do have surface sections it adds
to the frustrations of travel. *The seats themselves seem to have been
designed for midgets, with inadequate depth for an average sized adult
male and very thin upholstery.

Some tube journeys can be quite long - I have a regular trip between
Totteridge and Whetstone and South Wimbledon which takes one hour ten
minutes, and I wish transport chiefs would pay a little more attention
to the comfort of such passengers rather than basing the designs on
the needs of short distance commuters only.

Of course, most Victoria Line journeys are short, and all are entirely
underground. The 2009 stock can't operate on any other Tube line, and
nor will it be the basis for the replacement Piccadilly Line stock
(which is likely to be based on the current Northern Line stock). I
think the limited, harder, mainly/entirely longitudinal seating will be
more of a problem with the new S stock, which will often be used for
much longer journeys on the District and Met lines.

I rode on a 2009 train this morning between Vauxhall and Euston, which
surprised me (it must have been about midday). I took a couple of
photos just after getting off at Euston (apologies for noise/blur):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...t_Euston2..jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index..._at_Euston.jpg

Is there a deep-level stock in development with full articulation,
because I was expecting the 2009s to be articulated like the S stock.
Still, the train seemed spacious inside, though the windows seemed to
be very narrow, though on reflection, not much narrower than 1996/1995
trains? PA announcements included which side of the train the doors
would open on approach to each station which seems quite handy. I
think I heard shades of the high-pitched "Electrostar Whir" as I like
to call it upon acceleration - I've got used to it having ridden the
ELL class 378s so many times since re-opening!

"Dr. Sunil" wrote in message

On 14 May, 09:47, "Recliner" wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
Of course, most Victoria Line journeys are short, and all are
entirely underground. The 2009 stock can't operate on any other Tube
line, and nor will it be the basis for the replacement Piccadilly
Line stock (which is likely to be based on the current Northern Line
stock). I think the limited, harder, mainly/entirely longitudinal
seating will be more of a problem with the new S stock, which will
often be used for much longer journeys on the District and Met lines.

I rode on a 2009 train this morning between Vauxhall and Euston, which
surprised me (it must have been about midday). I took a couple of
photos just after getting off at Euston (apologies for noise/blur):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...at_Euston2.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index..._at_Euston.jpg

Is there a deep-level stock in development with full articulation,
because I was expecting the 2009s to be articulated like the S stock.

No, the S Stock is not articulated, but it does have wide gangways (like
the 378s). That wouldn't be possible on a non-articulated Tube-sized
train.

The proposal for articulated stock on the Victoria line (the Space
Train) was dropped some years ago, and I don't believe that there are
any current proposals. The only likely order for new Tube trains in the
next decade is for the Piccadilly Line, and it's likely that they will
be conventional trains based on the current 1995 Stock.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenk1977/108328170/

Other than trams/LRVs and Eurostars, I don't know of any current or
proposed articulated trains in the UK.

On 20 May, 17:02, "Recliner" wrote:
"Dr. Sunil" wrote in message







On 14 May, 09:47, "Recliner" wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
Of course, most Victoria Line journeys are short, and all are
entirely underground. The 2009 stock can't operate on any other Tube
line, and nor will it be the basis for the replacement Piccadilly
Line stock (which is likely to be based on the current Northern Line
stock). I think the limited, harder, mainly/entirely longitudinal
seating will be more of a problem with the new S stock, which will
often be used for much longer journeys on the District and Met lines.

I rode on a 2009 train this morning between Vauxhall and Euston, which
surprised me (it must have been about midday). I took a couple of
photos just after getting off at Euston (apologies for noise/blur):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...9_stock_at_Eus...
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...9_stock_at_Eus...

Is there a deep-level stock in development with full articulation,
because I was expecting the 2009s to be articulated like the S stock.

No, the S Stock is not articulated, but it does have wide gangways (like
the 378s). That wouldn't be possible on a non-articulated Tube-sized
train.

The proposal for articulated stock on the Victoria line (the Space
Train) was dropped some years ago, and I don't believe that there are
any current proposals. The only likely order for new Tube trains in the
next decade is for the Piccadilly Line, and it's likely that they will
be conventional trains based on the current 1995 Stock.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenk1977/108328170/

Other than trams/LRVs and Eurostars, I don't know of any current or
proposed articulated trains in the UK.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry by "articulated" I was indeed thinking of the 378s, not the DLR!