In message , d
writes

anyone who drives in londons knows that if theres slow moving traffic
theres either a bus or a pensioner at the head of it.

In my experience, there's much more likely to be traffic lights or road
works at the head of the queue. Two of the worst junctions in these
parts are not even served by buses.

--
Paul Terry

On May 18, 8:58*am, Bruce wrote:

On Tue, 18 May 2010 00:02:05 +0200, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2010 14:12:43 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:

It's not a Routemaster.

I think it is to a Routemaster what a new Mini is to an old one. *It
could never have been as small as a real Routemaster, as it couldn't
have been made accessible enough. *And while Routemasters are quite
fun, there is a bit of a lack of legroom for us taller passengers.

I think it's in essence a vertical-engined (I assume) Wright hybrid
decker with a bodykit. *This will probably help to make it not too
expensive, which means it might actually happen.

Put differently, I was a cynic, but now I've seen it I like it, even
if it does run around 90% of the time driver-only with the platform
closed. *Though if it does do that they'll need some means of making
that visible - will it perhaps be shown on the blind?

It is a strange combination of about 85% modern bus with the remaining
15% at the back being a grafted-on Routemaster-style platform and
stairs.

If it did run around 90% of the time driver-only with the platform
closed, what would be the point of it?

Well, quite.

There's very little clarity about how often it'll run with a
conductor, how it'll work both with and without a conductor, and how
London can justify the extra expense of conductors particularly given
the ticketing situation nowadays (i.e. the majority of people have a
prepaid ticket of some sort). Or if they're not to be a conductor but
a "uniformed presence" just what form that presence will take.

On Tue, 18 May 2010 09:52:05 +0100
Bruce wrote:
And thats before you
get onto the topic of the underpowered heaps not being able to maintain the
speed limit going up certain hills such as hampstead, highgate and mill hill.


The speed limit is a maximum, not a minimum.

Drive a Rover or a Volvo by any chance do you?

If the speed limit is 30 it would help the traffic flow if a bus could maintain
30, not struggle to manage 20.

B2003

On Tue, 18 May 2010 09:57:40 +0100
Paul Terry wrote:
anyone who drives in londons knows that if theres slow moving traffic
theres either a bus or a pensioner at the head of it.

In my experience, there's much more likely to be traffic lights or road
works at the head of the queue. Two of the worst junctions in these
parts are not even served by buses.

Buses make junctions even worse by either not being able to accelerate
quick enough to allow many vehicles behind to get through. On the idiotically
short green sequences in a lot of london it makes a difference.

B2003

wrote in message

On Tue, 18 May 2010 09:52:05 +0100
Bruce wrote:
And thats before you
get onto the topic of the underpowered heaps not being able to
maintain the speed limit going up certain hills such as hampstead,
highgate and mill hill.


The speed limit is a maximum, not a minimum.

Drive a Rover or a Volvo by any chance do you?

He's already told us (in other threads) that he drives an S Class Merc.

On Tue, 18 May 2010 10:34:11 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
The speed limit is a maximum, not a minimum.

Drive a Rover or a Volvo by any chance do you?

He's already told us (in other threads) that he drives an S Class Merc.

Why arn't I convinced....

B2003

On 18 May, 10:11, Mizter T wrote:
On May 18, 8:58*am, Bruce wrote:





On Tue, 18 May 2010 00:02:05 +0200, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Mon, 17 May 2010 14:12:43 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:

It's not a Routemaster.

I think it is to a Routemaster what a new Mini is to an old one. *It
could never have been as small as a real Routemaster, as it couldn't
have been made accessible enough. *And while Routemasters are quite
fun, there is a bit of a lack of legroom for us taller passengers.

I think it's in essence a vertical-engined (I assume) Wright hybrid
decker with a bodykit. *This will probably help to make it not too
expensive, which means it might actually happen.

Put differently, I was a cynic, but now I've seen it I like it, even
if it does run around 90% of the time driver-only with the platform
closed. *Though if it does do that they'll need some means of making
that visible - will it perhaps be shown on the blind?

It is a strange combination of about 85% modern bus with the remaining
15% at the back being a grafted-on Routemaster-style platform and
stairs.

If it did run around 90% of the time driver-only with the platform
closed, what would be the point of it?

Well, quite.

There's very little clarity about how often it'll run with a
conductor, how it'll work both with and without a conductor, and how
London can justify the extra expense of conductors particularly given
the ticketing situation nowadays (i.e. the majority of people have a
prepaid ticket of some sort). Or if they're not to be a conductor but
a "uniformed presence" just what form that presence will take.

Although just because we don't happen to know the plan, that doesn't
mean that there isn't one or that it can't be sensible (or, I hope,
that it depends on Boris's personal involvement).

I could think of something off the top of my head which would involve
a "uniformed presence" in the sections of routes and at times of day
which exactly match when fast loading of crowds at bus stops is
required. At the country end late in the evening, it won't matter.

I expect it's not beyond the realms of possibility that someone at TfL
can think of these things too, and there could be a glimmer hope that
someone has seized an opportunity from the Boris-related crisis.

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 09:23:30AM -0700, Mizter T wrote:

(I think it was Tom Barry - well it must have been - who attempted to
work out the total road space that would be used by the double-deckers
that replaced the bendies on route 38 - IIRC his calculation was that
they would actually occupy *more* road space.)

Total road space doesn't matter as much as the space taken up by an
individual bus. It's the latter that determines how much the other
traffic is held up as they block junctions etc.

This is obvious if you consider an artic versus a handful of cars, or a
car vs a handful of motorbikes.

If however one or both of the other doors are to be used, then the
whole rear open platform concept starts to look like a right gimmick -
some of the benefits attributed to the Routemasters of old, i.e. that
the open platform provided flexibility at bus stops ...

No, it provided flexibiilty when *not* at bus stops. It was common for
people to get on and off when the bus was stopped at traffic lights, for
example. This was Not Allowed, of course, and there was even a little
sticker near the entrance to tell you that, but in practice it's how a
lot of people got on and off, staff never stopped us from doing it, and
it went a long way to mitigate the problem of having everyone funnel
through a single entrance.

I've never got very excited over the concept of re-introducing
conductors - sure, they might be a kind of 'nice to have', but most
pax these days already have a ticket of some sort before boarding a
bus, which rather removes the raison d'etre for conductors.

They're useful for helping passengers by telling them where to get off,
helping the infirm on and off, and so on.

Supposedly, having uniformed staff makes some people feel safer too.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

I'm in retox

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:02:05AM +0200, Neil Williams wrote:

I think it is to a Routemaster what a new Mini is to an old one. It
could never have been as small as a real Routemaster, as it couldn't
have been made accessible enough. And while Routemasters are quite
fun, there is a bit of a lack of legroom for us taller passengers.

I'm 6'3" and never noticed this supposed lack of legroom on
Routemasters. I notice it all the time on modern buses though - I
suppose the difference is that the RM's seat backs had a bit of give in
them instead of being made of hard plastic shells, and so I could sit
without crushing my kneecaps.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Godliness is next to Englishness

On 18 May, 11:32, David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 09:23:30AM -0700, Mizter T wrote:
(I think it was Tom Barry - well it must have been - who attempted to
work out the total road space that would be used by the double-deckers
that replaced the bendies on route 38 - IIRC his calculation was that
they would actually occupy *more* road space.)

Total road space doesn't matter as much as the space taken up by an
individual bus. *It's the latter that determines how much the other
traffic is held up as they block junctions etc.

This is obvious if you consider an artic versus a handful of cars, or a
car vs a handful of motorbikes.

If however one or both of the other doors are to be used, then the
whole rear open platform concept starts to look like a right gimmick -
some of the benefits attributed to the Routemasters of old, i.e. that
the open platform provided flexibility at bus stops ...

No, it provided flexibiilty when *not* at bus stops. *It was common for
people to get on and off when the bus was stopped at traffic lights, for
example. This was Not Allowed, of course, and there was even a little
sticker near the entrance to tell you that, but in practice it's how a
lot of people got on and off, staff never stopped us from doing it, and
it went a long way to mitigate the problem of having everyone funnel
through a single entrance.

* * *I've never got very excited over the concept of re-introducing
conductors - sure, they might be a kind of 'nice to have', but most
pax these days already have a ticket of some sort before boarding a
bus, which rather removes the raison d'etre for conductors.

They're useful for helping passengers by telling them where to get off,
helping the infirm on and off, and so on.

Supposedly, having uniformed staff makes some people feel safer too.

And I had in mind things like selling tickets or Oyster cards to
confused visitors and those who supposedly travel for free at the
moment.

The security guard aspect was less in my mind than the helpfulness
possibilities.