On 21 May, 23:45, "
wrote:
On 21/05/2010 16:35, MIG wrote:



On 21 May, 16:14, Mizter *wrote:
On May 21, 3:09 pm, Neil
wrote:

On Fri, 21 May 2010 06:11:00 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T

*wrote:
You mean it would result in normal levels of crowding, like those
commuters everywhere else deal with?

Just because there is a problem elsewhere doesn't mean it should
spread in aid of someone's pet project that few or no passengers
actually want.

I wasn't trying to propose the diversion of the DC line service - just
pointing out that you've got it sweet!

TBH in the past I did find the idea of diverting the DC line along the
Primrose Hill link to Camden Rd (and the NLL beyond to the east)
attractive - indeed, I still find the idea of there being a service of
some sort between Willesden Jn or Queen's Park and Camden Road most
attractive (with a re-opened station at Primrose Hill too) - but I am
rather more concious of the need/ demand for the DC line into Euston
these days.

However with regards to the passenger demand, Paul C said that there
was apparently a lot of positive feedback from passenger surveys
conducted during the temporary diversion of the DC line away from
Euston and onto the NLL via the Primrose Hill link - this was between
September and mid-November 2008.

The LM commuter services show what can be done with the will and a few
quid. *Don't let's wreck it.

If there ever was to be a diversion of the DC line service, then it
could be mitigated by what Andy suggested - a Watford to Euston
shuttle service. Not sure how do-able it would be to stop it at
Queen's Park, but that would make such a thing x times more useful.

I'm sure we've been assured that it's impossible to stop LM trains at
Queens Park without ending the world (and it would need a new
crossover to serve Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead unless those
were abandoned, and an AC/DC changeover or new wiring).

I think people would like the service from Camden Road in addition to
the service from Euston, not as a diversion.

Would there be much harm in turning round a couple more Bakerloons at
Queens Park to allow a service via Primrose Hill to Watford? *Can't
see any competition for capacity.

Are there turning points at Camden Town, however?

You mean Camden Road? I was thinking more of running through from ELL
(or Stratford) rather than everything from the East having to turn
round at an arbitrary point where there happens to be a facility.

On Fri, 21 May 2010 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

However with regards to the passenger demand, Paul C said that there
was apparently a lot of positive feedback from passenger surveys
conducted during the temporary diversion of the DC line away from
Euston and onto the NLL via the Primrose Hill link - this was between
September and mid-November 2008.

I can assure you that these surveys were not being carried out
involving London Midland passengers from Euston (or indeed, probably,
anyone travelling to/from Euston as they'd be using LM trains or
alternative routes), so I would suggest they were biased.

Is there room/rolling stock to up the current 3tph (I think) to 4tph?
You could then, I suppose, alternate them on each route without
removing the Euston service.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On May 23, 7:46*pm, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Fri, 21 May 2010 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:
However with regards to the passenger demand, Paul C said that there
was apparently a lot of positive feedback from passenger surveys
conducted during the temporary diversion of the DC line away from
Euston and onto the NLL via the Primrose Hill link - this was between
September and mid-November 2008.

I can assure you that these surveys were not being carried out
involving London Midland passengers from Euston (or indeed, probably,
anyone travelling to/from Euston as they'd be using LM trains or
alternative routes), so I would suggest they were biased.

I didn't suggest for a moment they were! They were quite clearly
surveys of passengers who were using the combined DC Line - NLL
service that ran at the time. (And as I said in another post, that
would only have been some of the feedback - I expect that DC line
regulars - at least those who were headed for Euston - were likely not
at all impressed by this arrangement!)

To suggest that a bit of research like this is biased is just nonsense
- nothing was published, the idea of changing it permanently had been
shelved some time beforehand (see below), and TfL weren't trying to
push an agenda. It was, I understand, just a survey done for internal
consumption. Indeed it would have been rather remiss if TfL hadn't
done any such survey work looking at travelling patterns during this
unusual eleven week period.

And TfL would of course have been more than well aware of the knock-on
implications for LM services at the time of this temporary diversion,
and so the issues that would arise were there ever to be a permanent
change at some undetermined point in the future would be well
understood.


Is there room/rolling stock to up the current 3tph (I think) to 4tph?
You could then, I suppose, alternate them on each route without
removing the Euston service.

No idea. Anyhow the whole idea (which was connected with was shelved/
dropped some time

On 20 May, 21:12, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:

Do we think that the Watford DC lines will always run into their
London Terminus? *Somehow I think eventually they will run thru
Primrose Hill and on to Camden Road in order to link up with the rest
of the Orbital Network.

That has been considered, but it's frequently been knocked back as
demand into Euston is pretty high.

Neil

You make the incredibly stupid mistake of assuming that nearly
everyone travelling to Euston is only going as far as Euston. For
everyone else, the north london line makes plenty of decent
connections, or at least it would if they could be bothered to reopen
York Road.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 18:52:24 -0700 (PDT), lonelytraveller
wrote:

On 20 May, 21:12, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:

Do we think that the Watford DC lines will always run into their
London Terminus? *Somehow I think eventually they will run thru
Primrose Hill and on to Camden Road in order to link up with the rest
of the Orbital Network.

That has been considered, but it's frequently been knocked back as
demand into Euston is pretty high.

Neil

You make the incredibly stupid mistake of assuming that nearly
everyone travelling to Euston is only going as far as Euston. For
everyone else, the north london line makes plenty of decent
connections,

That is because "everyone else" [sic] needs a different route from
those travelling via Euston. Those travelling via Euston aren't doing
it to enjoy the view.

or at least it would if they could be bothered to reopen
York Road.

On 24 May, 03:52, lonelytraveller
wrote:

You make the incredibly stupid mistake of assuming that nearly
everyone travelling to Euston is only going as far as Euston.

Of course they're not. Most of them want to connect onwards by bus,
Tube, bicycle or foot, for all of which Euston is pretty well placed,
but presumably would prefer to spend as little time as possible on
cramped Tube trains (so don't choose the Bakerloo). As well as that,
most of them will be going on to destinations in Central London, for
which the NLL is precious little use unless a service actually into
Liverpool Street was to be provided.

In addition to that, going out of the city, a lot will prefer to board
the train at a terminus so it's less of a rush and a seat can be
obtained more easily.

Neil

On Sun, 23 May 2010, lonelytraveller wrote:

On 20 May, 21:12, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:

Do we think that the Watford DC lines will always run into their
London Terminus? *Somehow I think eventually they will run thru
Primrose Hill and on to Camden Road in order to link up with the rest
of the Orbital Network.

That has been considered, but it's frequently been knocked back as
demand into Euston is pretty high.

You make the incredibly stupid mistake of assuming that nearly everyone
travelling to Euston is only going as far as Euston. For everyone else,
the north london line makes plenty of decent connections, or at least it
would if they could be bothered to reopen York Road.

So let me get this straight: if they reopened York Road, at the cost of
god knows how many hundreds of millions of pounds, then the NLL option
would offer "plenty of decent connections". As opposed to the Euston
option, which costs nothing, and offers plenty of extremely good
connections. Okay, i can agree with that.

tom

--
The exact mechanics are unknown, but a recent sound file revealed the
process to go something like this: WONKA WONKA WONKA WONKA DEOO DEOO
DEOO DEOO WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW WONKA WONKA WONKA...

On May 24, 1:53*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2010, lonelytraveller wrote:

On 20 May, 21:12, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:

Do we think that the Watford DC lines will always run into their
London Terminus? *Somehow I think eventually they will run thru
Primrose Hill and on to Camden Road in order to link up with the rest
of the Orbital Network.

That has been considered, but it's frequently been knocked back as
demand into Euston is pretty high.

You make the incredibly stupid mistake of assuming that nearly everyone
travelling to Euston is only going as far as Euston. For everyone else,
the north london line makes plenty of decent connections, or at least it
would if they could be bothered to reopen York Road.

So let me get this straight: if they reopened York Road, at the cost of
god knows how many hundreds of millions of pounds, then the NLL option
would offer "plenty of decent connections". As opposed to the Euston
option, which costs nothing, and offers plenty of extremely good
connections. Okay, i can agree with that.

Alternatively, there could be an express canalbus service from Camden
(for Camden Rd NLL) to St. Pancras/ Kings Cross, just down the road
from Euston...

Mizter T wrote:

If there ever was to be a diversion of the DC line service, then it
could be mitigated by what Andy suggested - a Watford to Euston
shuttle service. Not sure how do-able it would be to stop it at
Queen's Park, but that would make such a thing x times more useful.

I think a Watford to Paddington shuttle would be most useful, allowing better
connections to the GWML and Heathrow from the WCML (tube between Euston and
Paddington is a nightmare if you have any luggage).

On Mon, 24 May 2010 15:26:35 +0100, chunkyoldcortina
wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

If there ever was to be a diversion of the DC line service, then it
could be mitigated by what Andy suggested - a Watford to Euston
shuttle service. Not sure how do-able it would be to stop it at
Queen's Park, but that would make such a thing x times more useful.

I think a Watford to Paddington shuttle would be most useful, allowing better
connections to the GWML and Heathrow from the WCML (tube between Euston and
Paddington is a nightmare if you have any luggage).


That's an excellent idea. I wonder why no-one has suggested it
before.

Another possibility would be Watford Junction to Heathrow. When
Crossrail is in place, all sorts of things become possible, including
Stansted Airport to Heathrow.

Of course there will always be the diehard trainspotters who believe
that the railway should not serve the enemy - air travel. ;-)