"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.net...
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:40:25 +0100, "Peter Masson"
wrote:
and demolition of St Pancras was contemplated, and MML services, at
least
from south of Leicester, would have been diverted to Moorgate).

Moorgate?! Would that have meant electrification - or just a mini New
Street?

Electrification wasn't on the cards - it would have been a dmu service,
basically the MML suburban dmus diverted via the Widened Lines to Moorgate,
and extended north of Bedford to Leicester. Trains from Nottingham, Derby
and Sheffield would have been diverted to Euston, either via Leicester and
Nuneaton (reverse), or via Market Harborough and Northampton. All that came
of it was that the St Pancras - Glasgow sleeper was diverted to run from
Euston via Northampton and Market Harborough for a few years before it was
withdrawn completely.

Peter

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:
It would have meant a mini New Street. There were no plans to
electrify the MML in those days. Moreover DMUs and, IIRC, Loco
hauled
Diesel trains regularly served Moorgate.

Ugh - bet that was nasty. It isn't even all that well ventilated.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

On Jun 3, 1:17*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message

.net... On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:40:25 +0100, "Peter Masson"
wrote:
and demolition of St Pancras was contemplated, and MML services, at
least
from south of Leicester, would have been diverted to Moorgate).

Moorgate?! *Would that have meant electrification - or just a mini New
Street?

Electrification wasn't on the cards - it would have been a dmu service,
basically the MML suburban dmus diverted via the Widened Lines to Moorgate,
and extended north of Bedford to Leicester. Trains from Nottingham, Derby
and Sheffield would have been diverted to Euston, either via Leicester and
Nuneaton (reverse), or via Market Harborough and Northampton. All that came
of it was that the St Pancras - Glasgow sleeper was diverted to run from
Euston via Northampton and Market Harborough for a few years before it was
withdrawn completely.

The closure of Northampton to Market Harborough was an unfortunate
one. It was fairly late IIRC. Offering the option to divert trains
to a different London Terminus has to be good during engineering
works. Moreover, given the current, crowded state of Saint Pancras,
moving some services to Euston could be worthwhile.

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 19:20:45 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 07:49:33 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote:
The wrong type of water ?



A rise in the water table caused by the decline of heavy industry on
Merseyside combined with wear caused by the 50x bogies on the steeply
curved track, for which they are not well designed.


It was mainly due to the closure of Walker's brewery, which used to
draw water from a 2' 6" diameter well that was located very close to
the running tunnel. It burst into the tunnel during construction and
flooded the workings, delaying the contract by many months.

Other businesses drew water from the ground but Walker's was by far
the largest user.


There is also the problem that the groundwater is becoming saline.


The water has its advantages, though - it causes a natural cooling
effect, making the stations beautifully cool in summer, unlike on
London Underground.


They would not be so cool if the service was as frequent, or the
trains as long as on most Underground lines.

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 22:13:18 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
They would not be so cool if the service was as frequent, or the
trains as long as on most Underground lines.

To be fair, the Loop frequency is about every 5 minutes (4 New
Brighton, 4 West Kirby, 2 Chester, 2 Ellesmere Port) which isn't far
off parts of LU off peak. And 6 cars of 50x aren't far off the
length, though admittedly more trains are 3.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

In article
,
(E27002) wrote:

The closure of Northampton to Market Harborough was an unfortunate
one. It was fairly late IIRC. Offering the option to divert trains
to a different London Terminus has to be good during engineering
works. Moreover, given the current, crowded state of Saint Pancras,
moving some services to Euston could be worthwhile.

By the time I travelled on it (on the Glasgow-Euston sleeper via the
scenic route) in 1970 it was the only train using that line.

It was a great trip but not exactly magnifique. Three engine changes, on
reversal at Leeds and Nottingham and at Northampton. There was a buffet on
the platform at the latter, great for breakfast during the engine change
(to an electric). It left Glasgow slightly after the WCML sleeper and
arrived at Euston after 10 am. Very civilised!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:
It would have meant a mini New Street. There were no plans to
electrify the MML in those days. Moreover DMUs and, IIRC, Loco hauled
Diesel trains regularly served Moorgate.

Ugh - bet that was nasty. It isn't even all that well ventilated.

Wasn't it rather better ventilated then, due to buildings not yet having
been constructed over the widened lines platforms?

The GN service was largely loco-hauled IIRC.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jun 3, 1:53*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:

It would have meant a mini New Street. *There were no plans to
electrify the MML in those days. *Moreover DMUs and, IIRC, Loco
hauled
Diesel trains regularly served Moorgate.

Ugh - bet that was nasty. It isn't even all that well ventilated.

IIRC, and it was a LONG time ago: DMUs ran through to the Midland
Suburban area from Moorgate. Loco hauled stock ran thru to the GN
suburbs. At some point the GN trains changed over to DMU and then
ceased altogether, and the tunels up thru Kings Cross Closed.

The down tunnel was particularly interesting because the trains
literally came up Hotel Curve, into the platfrom, on the suburban side
of Kings Cross. It was a sight to behold. I remember feeling some
regret when the service ended.

On 3 June, 23:53, E27002 wrote:
The down tunnel was particularly interesting because the trains
literally came up Hotel Curve, into the platfrom, on the suburban side
of Kings Cross. It was a sight to behold. *I remember feeling some
regret when the service ended.

And in the opposite direction the trains called at a platform just far
enough away from the main Kings Cross platforms to have its own name -
York Road. I think that the locos and units liable to use the route
were fitted with tripcocks and the traincrews had to be aware of
additional operating procedures which prevailed when operating over
London Transport controlled lines.

--
gordon

"E27002" wrote

The down tunnel was particularly interesting because the trains
literally came up Hotel Curve, into the platfrom, on the suburban side
of Kings Cross. It was a sight to behold. I remember feeling some
regret when the service ended.

The Hotel Curve must have been particularly horrible for loco crews in steam
days. As well as the suburban passenger service there was a heavy
cross-London freight service. The Hotel Curve was on a 7 chain radius, with
part of it climbing at 1 in 35. If the loco slipped, the only way the crew
could tell which way it was actually moving was to stretch out a hand and
feel the tunnel wall.

This accident report gives an indication of conditions in the Hotel Curve in
the 1930s
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/doc...sCross1932.pdf

Peter