On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 22:26:30 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 22:13:18 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
It was mainly due to the closure of Walker's brewery, which used to
draw water from a 2' 6" diameter well that was located very close to
the running tunnel. It burst into the tunnel during construction and
flooded the workings, delaying the contract by many months.

Other businesses drew water from the ground but Walker's was by far
the largest user.

There is also the problem that the groundwater is becoming saline.

That was the wrong sort of water that I had in mind. AFAIR it does not
take a lot of salt to greatly increase any corrosive reactions
involving water.


Indeed.

I don't know why it should be more saline than before. The fresh
water table under the city is rising, and one would have expected that
to generate a fresh water flow towards the (saline) river, not a
saline flow away from it.

Is there a hydrogeologist in the house? ;-)

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 11:00:39 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 22:26:30 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 22:13:18 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
It was mainly due to the closure of Walker's brewery, which used to
draw water from a 2' 6" diameter well that was located very close to
the running tunnel. It burst into the tunnel during construction and
flooded the workings, delaying the contract by many months.

Other businesses drew water from the ground but Walker's was by far
the largest user.

There is also the problem that the groundwater is becoming saline.

That was the wrong sort of water that I had in mind. AFAIR it does not
take a lot of salt to greatly increase any corrosive reactions
involving water.


Indeed.

I don't know why it should be more saline than before. The fresh
water table under the city is rising,

With the proximity of the Mersey I doubt that much in the vicinity is
completely "fresh" with geological features also seeming to queer the
pitch :-
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...0fd54f15c1804f
[http://tinyurl.com/3xbt53h]

and one would have expected that
to generate a fresh water flow towards the (saline) river, not a
saline flow away from it.

IMAU it is roughly speaking two adjacent bodies of wetness pushing
equally against each other with a resultant gradient of salinity
either side of the boundary.

Is there a hydrogeologist in the house? ;-)

AOL ;-)

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 05:52:34 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 11:00:39 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 22:26:30 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 22:13:18 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
It was mainly due to the closure of Walker's brewery, which used to
draw water from a 2' 6" diameter well that was located very close to
the running tunnel. It burst into the tunnel during construction and
flooded the workings, delaying the contract by many months.

Other businesses drew water from the ground but Walker's was by far
the largest user.

There is also the problem that the groundwater is becoming saline.

That was the wrong sort of water that I had in mind. AFAIR it does not
take a lot of salt to greatly increase any corrosive reactions
involving water.


Indeed.

I don't know why it should be more saline than before. The fresh
water table under the city is rising,

With the proximity of the Mersey I doubt that much in the vicinity is
completely "fresh" with geological features also seeming to queer the
pitch :-
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...0fd54f15c1804f
[http://tinyurl.com/3xbt53h]


Walkers would not have been able to brew beer with water that had any
measurable saline content. When the Loop Line was constructed, the
groundwater was entirely fresh except where the line joined the
existing Mersey railway tunnel that leaked brackish water, increasing
to salty at mid-river. Now the saline intrusion affects areas of the
Loop tunnel that were previously 100% fresh, such as Moorfields.

Of course providing a drained tunnel will affect the movement of
groundwater over the longer term.


and one would have expected that
to generate a fresh water flow towards the (saline) river, not a
saline flow away from it.

IMAU it is roughly speaking two adjacent bodies of wetness pushing
equally against each other with a resultant gradient of salinity
either side of the boundary.


But the phreatic surface of the fresh groundwater was higher than the
highest of high tides in the river. The tendency to flow should
therefore be towards the river.


Is there a hydrogeologist in the house? ;-)

AOL ;-)

On Jun 3, 1:54*am, Dazz285 wrote:
On 2 June, 19:57, E27002 wrote:





On Jun 2, 11:46*am, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

On 2 June, 19:36, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 2, 11:13*am, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

On 2 June, 17:40, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

On 2 June, 17:06, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 2, 6:56*am, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

On 1 June, 20:28, Paul Corfield wrote:

Photos are still loading up but most of them are there at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/

Paul Corfield

You beat me to it! I was waiting for better weather - did your camera
get wet? LOL

Still very nice images indeed. I took some this morning, still
uploading them to Wikimedia Commons. Here are my shots of Canonbury
(feed will be updated with Highbury and Caledonian Road some time
today!):

http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSe...ifam=commons.w...

Thank you for the link to your pictures Dr. *They help give a feel for
the changes. *When I first travelled on the NLL in the 1960s I never
thought to live to see this sort of renewal. *Canonbury is especially
striking.

West Croydon Station does not appear to have an Overground Roundel
outside.

You're welcome! I will try and get the H & I and Caledonian pictures
up this evening. I guess Paul's cloudy day pictures might be better
due to lack of shadows/glare but it was such a nice day today!

Actually W Croydon does have a roundel around the side entrance,
fronting the Sutton platform:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...t_Croydon_stn_...

Highbury pics now uploaded - I didn't take a shot of the exit, I
actually spent a full 15 minutes taking the other pics and the next
westbound train arrived just as I was entered the concourse! Has the
exit signage changed at all?

http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSe...ifam=commons.w...

Thanks again Dr. *I notice the presence of a fourth rail, sans
conductors, on the ELL tracks.

I thought so too, but it could just be spare track lying around. There
is no ELL fourth track (ie. the elevated section and former LU
section), which point against that. Incidentally, is the current
return thing a problem on the LU section?

IIRC the current return issue is more serious on the deep level tubes
built of iron (?) segements. *The Brunel tunnel on the ELL is
brickwork.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I managed to get a few pictures of the new stations before they
opened..http://www.flickr.com/photos/22077007@N04/

Thanks, interesting stuff.

In message , Neil
Williams writes
On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 09:56:27 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
Tube lines seem to have a headway of 2 minutes and a typical Tube
train has 7 or 8 cars.

Frequencies on the Tube are often lower off-peak and the coaches are a
bit shorter.

I think you will find that the coaches don't change length off peak.

Neither are tube trains reduced in length either (well not for many a
year)
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 00:24:38 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:
I think you will find that the coaches don't change length off peak.

I didn't mean they did, just that they are shorter than Merseyrail
ones (I think).

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.net...
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 02:31:08 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote:
So IIRC not "temporary" for planning purposes.

Must just be an "it looks scruffy now but we will sort later" statement,
then, I guess.

Generally, the final signage on LO is similar in style to LU, eg orange
roundels for station names on platforms. While they are still at the stage
of vinyl overlays on the existing 'ex Silverlink' hardware, they add the
words 'temporary sign'.

Paul S

On Jun 8, 1:40*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Paul Cummins" wrote in message

group.homeip.net... In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Generally, the final signage on LO is similar in style to LU, eg
orange roundels for station names on platforms.

I love the irony that the London Overground line, on the one ocasion it
crosses the
subsurface London Underground line, is below it.

IIRC it runs below a "tube" line too, north of Richmond

Yes, and at West Hampstead. The North London Line also used to go below the
tube (Central Line) at Stratford.

My initial reaction to the London Overground corporate brand was that
it is unneeded. The converted lines could simply have functioned
under the "Underground" identity. However, the system does serve a
distinct function. As I have said elsewhere it is very much London's
railway for Londoners. Moreover, the branding is growing in its
appeal to me.

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:50:52 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:

My initial reaction to the London Overground corporate brand was that
it is unneeded. The converted lines could simply have functioned
under the "Underground" identity.

But it would still need a 'line' brand within the Underground
identity. The parts of Overground actually below ground are relativly
few so it's a good description of the service.

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:15:20 +0100, Ivor The Engine
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:50:52 -0700 (PDT), E27002
wrote:

My initial reaction to the London Overground corporate brand was that
it is unneeded. The converted lines could simply have functioned
under the "Underground" identity.

Not necessarily. "Underground" (when associated with particular
designs etc.) is a brand used to indicate London Underground Ltd and
using it for non-LU services could at the least cause confusion or at
worst invite legalistic cock-ups.

But it would still need a 'line' brand within the Underground
identity. The parts of Overground actually below ground are relativly
few so it's a good description of the service.