On 4 June, 15:06, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 06:40:48 -0700 (PDT)

MIG wrote:
It's more to do with what would be left of music and entertainment if
it was left to straight, white men. *I spose we'd still have the
beatles, but not so many of their influences ...

Spare us your self hating nonsense. I suppose if it was left to "straight
white men" we wouldn't have cRap, R&B, Garage, Spike Jonze, Graham Norton
and Lenny Henry.

Oh dear, what a tragic loss to the world of entertainment that would be.

How would we cope just with all the thousands of rock & dance bands, composers,
musicians, A list directors and actors who were left? It would be tough....

I'm not arguing about WHICH race, gender or sexual orientation
entertainment should be restricted to. The whole idea of restricting
anything according to prejudice is the opposite of creativity; that's
me point.

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 17:43:53 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:
In message , Recliner
writes
At least Boris was sober and sensible
when he made his verbal attack; Ken was filmed often enough making
drunken outbursts that were hard to support (eg, anti-semitic).

Interested to hear your definition of the term "often"?


Only once. But in a right winger's rant against a left-wing former
Mayor, it becomes pluralised.

I think the accusation arose because a certain journalist on the
London Evening Standard who was known to be virulently
anti-Livingstone persistently provoked Ken on successive days. Ken
asked why the journalist was hounding him on a daily basis - which the
journalist freely admitted he was - and the reply was that he was only
doing what he had been told to do by his bosses (Associated
Newspapers). Ken's response was something along the lines of "So you
are only following orders? The concentration camp guards used that
excuse".

The journalist happened to be of Jewish descent, and decided to
carefully spin Ken's remarks in order to accuse Ken of being
anti-Semitic. But there was not the slightest hint of anti-Semitism
in anything Ken had said.

The journalist was Oliver Finegold.

Having been wound up by Finegold, the Board of Deputies of British
Jews made a complaint. It went to the Adjudication Panel for England
(who the h... ?) and they grossly over-reacted, giving Ken a month's
suspension from his position as Mayor. It was such an over-reaction
that the Board of Deputies of British Jews were extremely embarrassed.
They had only wanted an apology. ;-)

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010, d wrote:

Anyone else see Boris on the local news last night threatening the
protesting motorbikers with not being able to use the bus lanes if they
didn't stop the protests? While I think the bikers are whinging about
nothing (its only a quid a day FFS) I don't think Boris did himself any
favours whatsoever as he came across as rather petty and vindictive.

On aggregate, probably not. But i thought it was brilliant, and i am now
more disposed to vote for him.

Not disposed enough to actually do it, but more so!

tom

--
There is no harm in being sometimes wrong especially if one is promptly
found out. -- John Maynard Keynes

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010, d wrote:

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:30:48 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
Boltar -- you and I agree again!

Doctors are developing a cure even as we speak, hold on in there!

They'e already got one: amputation.

tom

--
There is no harm in being sometimes wrong especially if one is promptly
found out. -- John Maynard Keynes

"Ian Jelf" wrote in message

In message , Recliner
writes
At least Boris was sober and sensible
when he made his verbal attack; Ken was filmed often enough making
drunken outbursts that were hard to support (eg, anti-semitic).

Interested to hear your definition of the term "often"?

Remember these stories (OK, reported by the Daily Mail and ES)?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509257/Channel-4-film-attacks-Ken-Livingstones-astonishing-shocking-drinking-habits.html
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-437764-drunken-ken-and-my-15ft-plunge.do

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:10:47 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message

In message , Recliner
writes
At least Boris was sober and sensible
when he made his verbal attack; Ken was filmed often enough making
drunken outbursts that were hard to support (eg, anti-semitic).

Interested to hear your definition of the term "often"?

Remember these stories (OK, reported by the Daily Mail and ES)?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509257/Channel-4-film-attacks-Ken-Livingstones-astonishing-shocking-drinking-habits.html
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-437764-drunken-ken-and-my-15ft-plunge.do


Good grief! A politician who drinks alcohol!
This is completely unprecedented! © Associated Newspapers 2010

I note there is absolutely no mention of any anti-Semitism.

Neither is there mention of the repeated hounding and provocation of
Mr Livingstone by an employee or employees of Associated Newspapers.

Perhaps there should be a variant of Godwin's Law for whenever anyone
quotes the Daily Mail or Evening Standard on newsgroups?

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Bruce wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:10:47 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message

In message , Recliner
writes
At least Boris was sober and sensible
when he made his verbal attack; Ken was filmed often enough making
drunken outbursts that were hard to support (eg, anti-semitic).

Interested to hear your definition of the term "often"?

Remember these stories (OK, reported by the Daily Mail and ES)?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509257/Channel-4-film-attacks-Ken-Livingstones-astonishing-shocking-drinking-habits.html
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-437764-drunken-ken-and-my-15ft-plunge.do

Good grief! A politician who drinks alcohol!
This is completely unprecedented! ? Associated Newspapers 2010

I note there is absolutely no mention of any anti-Semitism.

Neither is there mention of the repeated hounding and provocation of
Mr Livingstone by an employee or employees of Associated Newspapers.

Perhaps there should be a variant of Godwin's Law for whenever anyone
quotes the Daily Mail or Evening Standard on newsgroups?

Nah, just hanging. It's the only language they understand.

tom

--
The trouble with eating German cuisine is that 3 days later, you are
hungry again! -- Graham, uk.food+drink.misc

Recliner wrote:
wrote in message

Anyone else see Boris on the local news last night threatening the
protesting motorbikers with not being able to use the bus lanes if
they didn't stop
the protests? While I think the bikers are whinging about nothing
(its only a quid a day FFS) I don't think Boris did himself any
favours whatsoever as he came across as rather petty and vindictive.
I wonder if Cameron might start moving him out to arms length fairly
soon...

Most of the comments to BBC London seemed to favour him -- motorbikes
aren't particular popular, even when they're not protesting about a
measly £1/day parking charge. At least Boris was sober and sensible
when he made his verbal attack; Ken was filmed often enough making
drunken outbursts that were hard to support (eg, anti-semitic).


Care to back up something that looks rather libellous with some actual
facts? Speaking as someone of Jewish descent who voted for Ken three
times I've never taken the anti-Semitic thing as being remotely true*,
rather it's another in a long line in groundless smears from the part of
the political spectrum that shouts 'anti-Semitism!' every time someone
points out obvious facts such as that Israel is run by barking mad
psychopaths.

Actually, anyone wanting film of a drunken Mayor making a fool of
himself is advised to seek out the footage of Boris at last year's City
Hall reception for London Pride (the LGBT festival, not the beer,
although it's possible Boris got confused).

As for the bikers - Boris has previously said there'll be a decision
based on an independent report into the effect of the bus lane trial, so
if he's now changing his mind in favour of making transport policy
decisions based on political patronage to people who please him that's a
retrograde step in my book, and worth noting as a footnote to his real
character.

Tom

* A couple of examples: Nicky Gavron, Ken's long-term deputy Mayor, is
of much the same origins as my Mum, daughter of a German Jewish refugee
mother. He was also mates with the Miliband brothers' father Ralph,
also a Jewish refugee from Europe. Plenty of Marxist Jews around
left-wing London in the old days, of course, so anti-Semitism isn't
really a great position to adopt for ambitious left wing London
politicians. If you want real anti-Semites try the old-school Tory
right, fundamentalist US Christians or the BNP.