In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
10:27:08 on Mon, 5 Jul 2010, remarked:
How many million tourists does Peterborough get each year? Get real!

How many tourists arrive in Cambridge by twirly-pass?

They use them when they are here!

So these are UK-resident OAP tourists who arrived by train and then
use the buses around the City?

And when I was last in Cambridge it was difficult to spot many
tourists over the age of 25, irrespective of how they'd arrived.

Your blinkers are showing.

Using my eyes (sans blinkers).

Anyway, you still haven't said how many tourists there are in
Peterborough.

They wouldn't be using the bus to get around inside Peterborough,
as all the tourist stuff is within walking distance. Oxford, York
and Lincoln might have a problem with people using buses within the
city limits.

But I'd expect the vast majority of OAP visitors to all these
places to be coming into the centre to do their shopping, not
sightseeing.

Stop trolling just this once, please, Roland. We are talking about the
cost to councils of non-residents using bus passes!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , Roland Perry
writes

So these are UK-resident OAP tourists who arrived by train and then use
the buses around the City?

I should think that rather more arrive by car and then use their passes
for a free trip to and from the city centre on the park-and-ride buses -
that's certainly how I use my own Freedom Pass, given the cost and
difficulty of parking in central Cambridge all day.

--
Paul Terry

In message , at 18:13:41
on Mon, 5 Jul 2010, remarked:
I'd expect the vast majority of OAP visitors to all these
places to be coming into the centre to do their shopping, not
sightseeing.

Stop trolling just this once, please, Roland. We are talking about the
cost to councils of non-residents using bus passes!

And you introduced the concept that Cambridge was inundated by twirly
tourists. I just don't reckon that's the case. Has anyone ever done a
survey?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 07:08:34 on Tue, 6
Jul 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
So these are UK-resident OAP tourists who arrived by train and then
use the buses around the City?

I should think that rather more arrive by car and then use their passes
for a free trip to and from the city centre on the park-and-ride buses
- that's certainly how I use my own Freedom Pass, given the cost and
difficulty of parking in central Cambridge all day.

How far away from Cambridge do you live, and to what extent do you
define yourself as a "tourist" when visiting?

I'm sure there are some - although tourists are perhaps less likely to
use P&R than shoppers from Scambs, being less familiar with the system.

And are these tourists just "up for the day", or staying locally. In the
latter case the P&R is even less likely to figure as you can't park
overnight and you already need to drive to the hotel/B&B to unload your
bags.
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 07:08:34 on Tue,
6 Jul 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

I should think that rather more arrive by car and then use their
passes for a free trip to and from the city centre on the
park-and-ride buses - that's certainly how I use my own Freedom Pass,
given the cost and difficulty of parking in central Cambridge all day.

How far away from Cambridge do you live,

"Freedom pass" means that I must be a resident of a London borough.

and to what extent do you define yourself as a "tourist" when visiting?

I generally go there on academic business - but the National Bus Pass
scheme doesn't differentiate, providing that I don't need a Cambridge
bus before 9.30am on a weekday.

I'm sure there are some - although tourists are perhaps less likely to
use P&R than shoppers from Scambs, being less familiar with the system.

Possibly, although Cambridge P&R is well advertised - and drivers who
ignore the signs often regret it.

I imagine that there is also considerable use of the National Bus Pass
from people arriving by train, as the station is a long walk from the
city centre.

And are these tourists just "up for the day", or staying locally.

They have to be day-trippers to use the Park and Ride car parks. Of
course, being only an hour or so from London makes Cambridge a popular
destination for day trippers.

--
Paul Terry

Roland Perry wrote in news:snSYsFqVNtMMFAt5
@perry.co.uk:

In message , at 07:08:34 on Tue, 6
Jul 2010, Paul Terry remarked:
So these are UK-resident OAP tourists who arrived by train and then
use the buses around the City?

I should think that rather more arrive by car and then use their passes
for a free trip to and from the city centre on the park-and-ride buses
- that's certainly how I use my own Freedom Pass, given the cost and
difficulty of parking in central Cambridge all day.

How far away from Cambridge do you live, and to what extent do you
define yourself as a "tourist" when visiting?

I'm sure there are some - although tourists are perhaps less likely to
use P&R than shoppers from Scambs, being less familiar with the system.

And are these tourists just "up for the day", or staying locally. In the
latter case the P&R is even less likely to figure as you can't park
overnight and you already need to drive to the hotel/B&B to unload your
bags.

I am the parent of two students at Cambridge University. I am allowed to
park in their college grounds when visiting them, and have on occasion then
used the buses with my pass to get around the city. Perhaps I am not very
typical, but there are a lot of students in Cambridge, and these days it
isn't uncommon for their parents to be the wrong side of 60.

Peter

--
| Peter Campbell Smith | Epsom | UK |

In message , at 09:17:09 on Tue, 6
Jul 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

I should think that rather more arrive by car and then use their
passes for a free trip to and from the city centre on the
park-and-ride buses - that's certainly how I use my own Freedom Pass,
the cost and difficulty of parking in central Cambridge all day.

How far away from Cambridge do you live,

"Freedom pass" means that I must be a resident of a London borough.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure why we are supposed to know that.

and to what extent do you define yourself as a "tourist" when visiting?

I generally go there on academic business - but the National Bus Pass
scheme doesn't differentiate, providing that I don't need a Cambridge
bus before 9.30am on a weekday.

Do you use free buses to do the whole trip, or is the "bit in the
middle" on a train, or even a car?

I'm sure there are some - although tourists are perhaps less likely to
use P&R than shoppers from Scambs, being less familiar with the
system.

Possibly, although Cambridge P&R is well advertised -

All of them are pretty well advertised, but they never advertise the
gotchas. Experience of different P&R round the country says service
levels are pretty patchy, and as a first time visitor to Cambridge it's
always going to be a gamble.

and drivers who ignore the signs often regret it.

You've done a survey which told you that?

I imagine that there is also considerable use of the National Bus Pass
from people arriving by train, as the station is a long walk from the
city centre.

Those are the ones I mentioned originally.

And are these tourists just "up for the day", or staying locally.

They have to be day-trippers to use the Park and Ride car parks.

Agreed.

Of course, being only an hour or so from London makes Cambridge a
popular destination for day trippers.

If you say so. I'm still unconvinced that this is a major drain on
resources, compared to people living within a 10-mile radius coming to
Cambridge to shop.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 08:57:42 on Tue,
6 Jul 2010, Peter Campbell Smith remarked:

I am the parent of two students at Cambridge University. I am allowed to
park in their college grounds when visiting them, and have on occasion then
used the buses with my pass to get around the city. Perhaps I am not very
typical, but there are a lot of students in Cambridge, and these days it
isn't uncommon for their parents to be the wrong side of 60.

That's a pretty weak example, and yes, you are not typical.
--
Roland Perry

On Jul 6, 12:50*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 09:17:09 on Tue, 6
Jul 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

I should think that rather more arrive by car and then use their
passes for a free trip to and from the city centre on the
park-and-ride buses - that's certainly how I use my own Freedom Pass,
the cost and difficulty of parking in central Cambridge all day.

How far away from Cambridge do you live,

"Freedom pass" means that I must be a resident of a London borough.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure why we are supposed to know that.

Apart from the fact you did know that, this is uk.transport.london,
and the existence of the Freedom Pass is also regularly part of
discussions on uk.railway.

Hard not to come to the conclusion that you do enjoy a bit of
provocative trolling from time to time Mr Perry ;-)

In message , Roland Perry
writes

In message , at 09:17:09 on Tue,
6 Jul 2010, Paul Terry remarked:

I should think that rather more arrive by car and then use their
passes for a free trip to and from the city centre on the
park-and-ride buses - that's certainly how I use my own Freedom
Pass, the cost and difficulty of parking in central Cambridge all day.

"Freedom pass" means that I must be a resident of a London borough.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure why we are supposed to know that.

Freedom passes are often discussed here (here being uk.transport.london,
after all).

Do you use free buses to do the whole trip, or is the "bit in the
middle" on a train, or even a car?

The answer is in the bit you quoted (viz. car from London to one of the
park-and-ride sites - usually Trumpington - and then bus).

Experience of different P&R round the country says service levels are
pretty patchy, and as a first time visitor to Cambridge it's always
going to be a gamble.

Heaven forbid that they might have to use the Internet to see what
service levels are like before they leave! But you are right in the
sense that early closing times of such car parks can be a gotcha. The
Cambridge scheme is well set-up, with staffed information offices at the
terminals and frequent bus services.

and drivers who ignore the signs often regret it.
You've done a survey which told you that?

No, it's something that I and colleagues have experienced, which is why
I now always use the free park-and-ride. Parking in the centre of
Cambridge is extremely difficult and expensive. I frequently travel
there for examiners' meetings (of which there are hundreds at this time
of year), many of which involve large numbers of the 60+ age group.

If you say so. I'm still unconvinced that this is a major drain on
resources, compared to people living within a 10-mile radius coming to
Cambridge to shop.

Bus-pass journeys starting outside the city of Cambridge are irrelevant,
because they are not paid for by the city council.

All of this has, in fact, been thoroughly discussed in parliament, where
it was agreed that cities which are tourist centres are unfairly treated
by the current grant arrangements - Cambridge, Norwich and Oxford were
mentioned in particular (see Hansard for 26 January 2009).

There really is no doubt that tourism is the main problem - particularly
now that we have an increasingly mobile population over the age of 59
with time (and bus passes) on their hands. AIUI, the grant arrangements
are being reviewed (hence the answer to the original question in this
thread) with a view to making them more equitable.
--
Paul Terry