[x-posted to uk.transport.london]

D7666 wrote:
This one been mentioned yet ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LnDhMy-axw


Open air Moorgate, and kettle freights passing Farringdon, and never
mind the music.

This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

On Jun 16, 3:45*pm, Mizter T wrote:
[x-posted to uk.transport.london]

D7666 wrote:
This one been mentioned yet ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LnDhMy-axw

Open air Moorgate, and kettle freights passing Farringdon, and never
mind the music.

This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Thank you D7666 for posting. This video is lovely, so intense. It
easy to forget just how much steam could achieve.

Mizter T. I recall Kings Cross from the late 1960s, early 70s. It
was a mess with bits everywhere - York Rd, the Suburban Side, The
Metropolitan in front, and so on. It was hard to see the station from
Euston Rd with the jumble of buildings in front. BUT, it had
tremendous atmosphere. Many lunchtimes, on the way to a pub lunch, I
would pass the front of the mainline station and hear the diesels
throbbing, accompanied by their distinct aroma.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:45:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Good find! I'm only familiar with "modern" KX, didn't realise what a
mess it was before the current extension at the front.

All the shots of steam locos look very atmospheric but I'm not sure I
would have wanted to exit trains in a cloud of steam and soot every
morning! What must it have been like for the engine crew in the
tunnels with the two trains leaving the station together (9:00)?

That plot of land looks a bit like the triangle between Pentonville Rd
and Grays Inn Rd (looking west-east) but could be Kings Cross Road as
you say - odd to find that 1930s house stuck in the middle!

On 17 June, 10:43, Ivor The Engine wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:45:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T



wrote:
This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Good find! * I'm only familiar with "modern" KX, didn't realise what a
mess it was before the current extension at the front.

All the shots of steam locos look very atmospheric but I'm not sure I
would have wanted to exit trains in a cloud of steam and soot every
morning! * What must it have been like for the engine crew in the
tunnels with the two trains leaving the station together (9:00)?

That plot of land looks a bit like the triangle between Pentonville Rd
and Grays Inn Rd (looking west-east) but could be Kings Cross Road as
you say - odd to find that 1930s house stuck in the middle! *

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down.

On 17/06/2010 16:47, Dr. Sunil wrote:
On 17 June, 10:43, Ivor The wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:45:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T



wrote:
This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Good find! I'm only familiar with "modern" KX, didn't realise what a
mess it was before the current extension at the front.

All the shots of steam locos look very atmospheric but I'm not sure I
would have wanted to exit trains in a cloud of steam and soot every
morning! What must it have been like for the engine crew in the
tunnels with the two trains leaving the station together (9:00)?

That plot of land looks a bit like the triangle between Pentonville Rd
and Grays Inn Rd (looking west-east) but could be Kings Cross Road as
you say - odd to find that 1930s house stuck in the middle!

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down.


Was there not talk at some point of incorporating the City Branch into
LOROL?

On Jun 17, 4:47*pm, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down

There was a short article in Modern Railways recently that suggested
conversion of the alignment to use as sidings for LUL so that S Stock
can be stabled there.

--
Paul C
via Google

On Jun 18, 7:38*am, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:47*pm, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down

There was a short article in Modern Railways recently that suggested
conversion of the alignment to use as sidings for LUL so that S Stock
can be stabled there.

Which is, I think, the 'obvious' suggestion that lots of people (inc.
moi!) have come up with in the past when this issue has been discussed.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010, Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 18, 7:38*am, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:47*pm, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down

There was a short article in Modern Railways recently that suggested
conversion of the alignment to use as sidings for LUL so that S Stock
can be stabled there.

Which is, I think, the 'obvious' suggestion that lots of people (inc.
moi!) have come up with in the past when this issue has been discussed.

Surely the *obvious* use is to reroute the Met and friends over one of the
liberated pairs, so you have two tracks in each direction, and then use
the paired tracks to run double-width gigantotrains as a shuttle between
Farringdon and Moorgate.

But after that, yes, using the track as sidings is pretty obvious.

tom

--
ONE IN EIGHT GO MAD

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010, wrote:

On 17/06/2010 16:47, Dr. Sunil wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has been
lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has been
taken down.

Was there not talk at some point of incorporating the City Branch into
LOROL?

How would that work? Some kind of mad spur from Moorgate to Shoreditch? Or
from Farringdon to Euston? Or both? Or do you mean LOROL but LO, in which
case what would it do?

Or do you mean the Northern City line, ie the Finsbury Park - Moorgate
tube? I could see that making a certain amount of sense as part of LO,
although i don't see how you'd reconcile that with its importance to outer
suburban services.

tom

--
ONE IN EIGHT GO MAD

IMHO what the Circle Line desperately needs is some kind of relief
location where trains can be regulated.

4 tracks for Circle use *only* where you can do bifurcating operation
and/or recess trains and/or overtake if necessary are all contribute
positively to service regulation. ((The point about overtaking is
taking one train out of the flow when trains are bunched, re-inserting
it when the bunch has passed.))

Edgware Road is out of the frame these days since the broken Circle,
there is almost nowhere else where anything can be done.

Someone pointed out on some forum recently - here ? District Dave ? I
forget - that Kings Cross and Victoria are very busy stations with
long dwell times and oppurtunities - albeit expensive ones - have been
lost/impossible in recent/planned rebuild to put in 4 platforms. The
advantage cited was both locations are away from all the junctions,
and diametrically opposite each other, offering 2 regulation
locations. Clearly neither would happen now.

But if you slightly displaced the suggested regulation locations
clockwise around the Circle, you could use *Barbican* and South Ken.
The latter has I think room for 4 tracks still within the existing
structure/cutting, although it would need some shifting around of
trackside kit.

Thus a more sensible use of the redundant ''widened lines'' going east
of Farringdon would be to diverge from the Met-City to 4 platforms
through Barbican and converge back to 2 through lines through
Moorgate. I suggest there is enough space to do this but would need a
certain amount of significant work east of Barbican to achieve.

Ideally for bifurcating working you need an island for each direction
with both platform faces going the same way - neither South Ken nor
Barbican would offer this, so any trains being recessed or tipping out
would cause passenger to have to use crossways, but I suggest overall
this is an advantage : it train X is in the existing platform train Y
is stuck in tunnel behind. With 2 platform tracks, Y might get in
allowing passengers to cross to X while Y recesses. Overall it keep
passengers moving even if one train does not.

The whole point of this suggestion is to address the fundamental weak
point of the Circle - it has zero resilience. If you have 4 track
locations it allows sort of elasticity for the operators.

Far too subtle a point for uk.railway ''but we've always done it his
way'' die hards of course.

--
Nick