On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:46:34 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

"Matt Forbes" wrote in message

I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

Presumably because at the time, the (at the time, recently
refurbished) stock was still fit for purpose, and replacing it with
the ex-Jubilee stock would have been a false economy. Perhaps if
there were six or seven units of 83 stock available now, then it might
be worthwhile, but with 69 stock becoming available soon, I think
there's a strong possibility that some of them will head to Grockle-
Central, rather than straight to CF Booth's tin-can factory.

I presume you mean 1967 stock. I assume that driving it in purely
manual mode in short formation won't be a problem?


The stock earmarked for the Island Line is either 1972 or 1973 stock.
The 1972 stock is almost identical to 1967 stock but has manual diving
controls.

In message , Bruce
writes

The 1972 stock is almost identical to 1967 stock but has manual diving
controls.

Which could prove useful on Ryde pier, no doubt.

--
Paul Terry

I presume you mean 1967 stock. *I assume that driving it in purely
manual mode in short formation won't be a problem?

I did. Oops!

The stock earmarked for the Island Line is either 1972 or 1973 stock.
The 1972 stock is almost identical to 1967 stock but has manual diving
controls.

But when with the 72/73 stock be replaced? I thought that they were
up for replacement around 2015, and surely by that time the IoW fleet
will be falling to bits. With the ex-Victoria vehicles becoming
available somewhat sooner, I'd have thought that they would be used.

M

On Jul 8, 12:23*pm, Matt Forbes wrote:
I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

Presumably because at the time, the (at the time, recently
refurbished) stock was still fit for purpose, and replacing it with
the ex-Jubilee stock would have been a false economy. *Perhaps if
there were six or seven units of 83 stock available now, then it might
be worthwhile, but with 69 stock becoming available soon, I think
there's a strong possibility that some of them will head to Grockle-
Central, rather than straight to CF Booth's tin-can factory.

Wonder how much TfL will ask for them from the Island Line? (And IIRC
it is the Island Line that would be buying them, as opposed to a Rosco
- correct?)

Maybe they could hand 'em over for free, in exchange for TfL staff and
pensioners getting a free ride on the line? ;-)

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 05:34:03 -0700 (PDT), Matt Forbes
wrote:


I presume you mean 1967 stock. *I assume that driving it in purely
manual mode in short formation won't be a problem?

I did. Oops!

The stock earmarked for the Island Line is either 1972 or 1973 stock.
The 1972 stock is almost identical to 1967 stock but has manual diving
controls.

But when with the 72/73 stock be replaced? I thought that they were
up for replacement around 2015, and surely by that time the IoW fleet
will be falling to bits. With the ex-Victoria vehicles becoming
available somewhat sooner, I'd have thought that they would be used.


Sorry, I am just repeating what I have heard and read. I don't know
the reasoning behind it, but perhaps the cost of installing manual
controls and the extra age of the 1967 stock count against it?

Some of the 1972 stock was actually built as late as 1979, so perhaps
those are the vehicles that have been selected? That would make them
a decade younger than even the last produced 1967 stock.

On 8 July, 13:57, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 05:34:03 -0700 (PDT), Matt Forbes

wrote:

I presume you mean 1967 stock. *I assume that driving it in purely
manual mode in short formation won't be a problem?

I did. *Oops!

The stock earmarked for the Island Line is either 1972 or 1973 stock.
The 1972 stock is almost identical to 1967 stock but has manual diving
controls.

But when with the 72/73 stock be replaced? *I thought that they were
up for replacement around 2015, and surely by that time the IoW fleet
will be falling to bits. *With the ex-Victoria vehicles becoming
available somewhat sooner, I'd have thought that they would be used.

Sorry, I am just repeating what I have heard and read. *I don't know
the reasoning behind it, but perhaps the cost of installing manual
controls and the extra age of the 1967 stock count against it?

Some of the 1972 stock was actually built as late as 1979, so perhaps
those are the vehicles that have been selected? *That would make them
a decade younger than even the last produced 1967 stock.

Another consideration is that there are 7 x 4 car units (plus 3 extra
cars) of 1972 Mk I stock which were converted (in the late 1980s /
early 1990s) to run in the middle of 1967 trains. These units were
split in half and each half coupled to 1967 stock half unit. This put
the 1967 stock cabs (with the ATO equipment) at the outer ends and the
1972 stock cabs (with the manual equipment) in the middle of an 8 car
train.

i.e.
from DM(67)-T(67)-T(67)-DM(67) + DM(72)-T(72)-T(72)-DM(72)
to DM(67)-T(67)-T(72)-exDM(72) + exDM(72)-T(72)-T(67)-DM(67)

A possibility is that these units will be the trains for the Island
Line, reformed back to 4 car 1972 stock trains. I believe that the
driving equipment is still used for shunting when reforming trains in
the depot.

In article ,
(Bruce) wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:46:34 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

"Matt Forbes" wrote in message

I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

Presumably because at the time, the (at the time, recently
refurbished) stock was still fit for purpose, and replacing it with
the ex-Jubilee stock would have been a false economy. Perhaps if
there were six or seven units of 83 stock available now, then it
might be worthwhile, but with 69 stock becoming available soon, I
think there's a strong possibility that some of them will head to
Grockle- Central, rather than straight to CF Booth's tin-can factory.

I presume you mean 1967 stock. I assume that driving it in purely
manual mode in short formation won't be a problem?

The stock earmarked for the Island Line is either 1972 or 1973 stock.
The 1972 stock is almost identical to 1967 stock but has manual diving
controls.

The remaining 1972 stock is mainly on the Bakerloo but some is
incorporated in Victoria Line trains with 1967 stock, with the cabs in the
middle of trains out of use.

A significant part of the 1972 stock, whatever was on the Northern Line
before the 1995 stock arrived, has already been scrapped. I wonder why
that didn't go to the Island?

In any case, the 1973 stock on the Piccadilly is due for replacement
before the bulk of the remaining 1972 stock on the Bakerloo. I don't think
there is enough 1972 stock on the Victoria to meet the Island needs either
and didn't I read somewhere that LUL wanted it to strengthen the Bakerloo
trains anyway?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:30:52 -0500,
wrote:

The remaining 1972 stock is mainly on the Bakerloo but some is
incorporated in Victoria Line trains with 1967 stock, with the cabs in the
middle of trains out of use.

A significant part of the 1972 stock, whatever was on the Northern Line
before the 1995 stock arrived, has already been scrapped. I wonder why
that didn't go to the Island?


Left hand, right hand. There was talk of trams, and even the
suggestion of a guided busway. Not such a bad idea, as buses could
then go on the normal road to serve Ventnor.


In any case, the 1973 stock on the Piccadilly is due for replacement
before the bulk of the remaining 1972 stock on the Bakerloo. I don't think
there is enough 1972 stock on the Victoria to meet the Island needs either
and didn't I read somewhere that LUL wanted it to strengthen the Bakerloo
trains anyway?


That would explain why 1973 stock is more likely to go to the Island
than 1972 stock.

I would have hoped that other alternatives could be considered, such
as lowering the trackbed through the tunnel to its original level and
installing proper drainage. Then surplus Class 508s could be used.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On Jul 8, 12:23 pm, Matt Forbes wrote:
I've never understood why they didn't grab some 1983 stock when they
had the chance. Decades newer than what they've got and the single
leaf doors wouldn't have been a problem on the IOW.

Presumably because at the time, the (at the time, recently
refurbished) stock was still fit for purpose, and replacing it with
the ex-Jubilee stock would have been a false economy. Perhaps if
there were six or seven units of 83 stock available now, then it might
be worthwhile, but with 69 stock becoming available soon, I think
there's a strong possibility that some of them will head to Grockle-
Central, rather than straight to CF Booth's tin-can factory.

Wonder how much TfL will ask for them from the Island Line? (And IIRC
it is the Island Line that would be buying them, as opposed to a Rosco
- correct?)

Not necessarily, the 38 stock currently in use was owned by a ROSCO (HSBC?)
until just before the last franchise change, when they were sold to SWT for
a nominal sum.

Looking at other posts in the thread, I can't quite see why there is all the
debate about 67 or 73 stock. SWT's last webchat had this to say:

Q21. Have you considered replacing Island Line trains with new stock added
to an LU order...

A. We will replace the rolling stock on the island line in the next 5 to 7
years. ... We are planning to use Piccadilly Line rolling stock. (ie 73
stock)

Followed later by:

Q142. Paraphrased: I thought you would be using 72 stock because etc etc..

A. Rolling stock for the Island Line will be in a two car formation.
Before using replacement stock we will refurbish the units to be fit for the
Island Line.

Paul S

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:12:17 +0100
Bruce wrote:
I would have hoped that other alternatives could be considered, such
as lowering the trackbed through the tunnel to its original level and
installing proper drainage. Then surplus Class 508s could be used.

Given the dodgy state of the infrastructure last time I was there about
3 years ago, I suspect weight is an issue on a lot of bridges as well as the
pier.

B2003