On Jul 8, 1:58*pm, Neil Williams wrote:

On 8 July, 13:42, Mizter T wrote:

CTA? (Common ticketed area?)

Compulsory ticket area.

Of course, d'oh! (I should add that I've never claimed to know what
I'm talking about!)


I *think* you're suggesting that the entire overbridge should be
barriered, right? Or not barriered - it's not quite clear to me. (I
don't quite understand the "*might*" reference w.r.t. access to the
main platforms.)

I'm saying the whole overbridge should be within a common barriered
area containing both LUL and the mainline. *To achieve this, it would
I guess be necessary to have a smaller barriered area around the
access to the stairs on the HEx platforms and platform 1. *There would
then be no barriers on the bridge itself to get in the way of a very
large passenger flow.

OK. There's also the ramp and stairs up from platforms 8 & 9 - these
platforms are ungated at the concourse end (and of course platform 1,
by it's nature, is ungated, as you suggest).

The HEx platforms could I suppose have the reverse arrangement of what
currently exists on the overbridge for platforms 2-5 - but this
doesn't tackle the issue of the overbridge as a public access route
from that northern entrance (where gates would frustrate wannabe HEx
pax as well as many others), and they would block off the option of
wannabe HEx pax jumping out the taxi (on the cab road next to
Eastbourne Terrace) and heading to the HEx platforms via the
overbridge instead of the concourse. I'm only focusing on HEx issues
here as I'm sure that's what BAA would fuss about - I think the issue
of public access to the northern entrance would be more of an issue,
more on that in a mo...


(I suspect, like other things, this was not an issue prior to the
teacup).

Interesting - if so, there might be something of a left-hand (FGW)
right-hand (LU) situation here - but it would be interesting to hear
more from regular users of these gates, or indeed see the usage stats
before and after, so as to be surer as to what degree the new Circle/
teacup line arrangement may have affected matters.


Gating the entire overbridge would bring its own set of issues - the
overbridge is used as a route to and from the exit at the north side
of the station (towards the canal basin and Harrow Rd beyond).

How do you get there? *Is it from Platform 1, which would remain
unbarriered? *I can't recall seeing any other exits.

The NRE "Stations Made Easy" plan of Paddington is very useful here as
it comprehensively illustrates the situation:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/statio...Overview.xhtml

So, there's a ramp up from platforms 8 & 9 - these platforms are
ungated at the concourse end. The northern entrance/exit is more of a
side-door, but it is signed as an exit within the station (to "Harrow
Rd") via both platform 1 and platforms 8 & 9. It serves the large new-
ish Paddington Basin development, and to some extent St Mary's
Hospital, as well as providing a route north to Harrow Rd and beyond.

I suppose that one could put forward the case that it's used by
regular users, such as commuters, who are likely to have a season
ticket or Oyster card - and the gates could be configured to provide
'free passage' through the CTA (though such an arrangement is open to
abuse, with bods touching-out on the gate but not walking through it,
and instead staying within the CTA so as to board a train to
wherever).

And as you pointed out in your original post (and I understand the
reference now), such a gating scheme would allow people to gain access
to the main (non-surburban) platforms, for the cost of an unresolved
journey - FGW might consider than an issue, especially with the
possibility of some pax innocently and unthinkingly assuming they
could use Oyster PAYG to get to say Slough or Reading.


Regardless, the situation sounds rather less than ideal. (Long term,
as part of Crossrail, the LU H&C/ lasso line platforms are to get a
new entrance which should help matters - must admit I'm not up on the
details of this though.)

That is certainly necessary - my experiences over the past few weeks
would suggest that the issue on that platform is so bad that the
Circle should be reverted until *after* another entrance (or at least
a second set of temporary stairs from the overbridge to the LUL
platforms) can be constructed.

Must admit that I was a bit surprised when the Teacup/ Lasso
(whatever!) went ahead without there being any changes at Paddington
H&C platforms - I recall alighting there some time before the changes,
not during the rush-hour either (poss. shoulder-peak), and standing
right at the back of a queue of people waiting to climb the stairs (I
was in no rush) - the number of people hauling luggage up the stairs
(and not holding up for a moment for the non-luggaged folk to go
first) was a significant contributory factor, but even without the
luggage the number of people would have prevented a quick escape. I
spoke to the platform assistant on duty and he said it was always like
that!

One last thing - I dunno how it would compare to using the Circle/H&C
line (slower I'm sure), but one alternate option for a Paddington to
Euston journey might be the 18 (bendy) bus that traverses Harrow Road
- you'd need to use the aforementioned northern exit from Paddington,
and use the pedestrian subway under the road. The 18 is a busy route,
though it might be ok in the contra-peak direction. Just and idea -
though it might well be more useful in a snafu situation as opposed to
during the normal course of events (when others might be heading to
the front of Paddington for the 205 bus).

In article 6f1f7d2d-2fde-4d01-97e6-
, says...
That is certainly necessary - my experiences over the past few weeks
would suggest that the issue on that platform is so bad that the
Circle should be reverted until *after* another entrance (or at least
a second set of temporary stairs from the overbridge to the LUL
platforms) can be constructed.

Must admit that I was a bit surprised when the Teacup/ Lasso
(whatever!) went ahead without there being any changes at Paddington
H&C platforms - I recall alighting there some time before the changes,
not during the rush-hour either (poss. shoulder-peak), and standing
right at the back of a queue of people waiting to climb the stairs (I
was in no rush) - the number of people hauling luggage up the stairs
(and not holding up for a moment for the non-luggaged folk to go
first) was a significant contributory factor, but even without the
luggage the number of people would have prevented a quick escape. I
spoke to the platform assistant on duty and he said it was always like
that!

I can't see why the Circle line changes should have made any difference
to people exiting at Paddington. Sure the overall numbers arriving per
hour will have increased, but has the number of passengers exiting per
train really changed?

Most people joining at stations like King's Cross heading to Paddington
got on the first service regardless of whether it was a Hammersmith &
City or Circle service. Therefore I would have expected the pinch point
on the stairs following the arrival of a service to be the same now as
before the changes.

Duncan

On Jul 8, 10:45*pm, Duncan wrote:
In article 6f1f7d2d-2fde-4d01-97e6-
, says...





That is certainly necessary - my experiences over the past few weeks
would suggest that the issue on that platform is so bad that the
Circle should be reverted until *after* another entrance (or at least
a second set of temporary stairs from the overbridge to the LUL
platforms) can be constructed.

Must admit that I was a bit surprised when the Teacup/ Lasso
(whatever!) went ahead without there being any changes at Paddington
H&C platforms - I recall alighting there some time before the changes,
not during the rush-hour either (poss. shoulder-peak), and standing
right at the back of a queue of people waiting to climb the stairs (I
was in no rush) - the number of people hauling luggage up the stairs
(and not holding up for a moment for the non-luggaged folk to go
first) was a significant contributory factor, but even without the
luggage the number of people would have prevented a quick escape. I
spoke to the platform assistant on duty and he said it was always like
that!

I can't see why the Circle line changes should have made any difference
to people exiting at Paddington. Sure the overall numbers arriving per
hour will have increased, but has the number of passengers exiting per
train really changed?

Most people joining at stations like King's Cross heading to Paddington
got on the first service regardless of whether it was a Hammersmith &
City or Circle service. Therefore I would have expected the pinch point
on the stairs following the arrival of a service to be the same now as
before the changes.


The problem isn't so much the number of passengers arriving at
Paddington on these platforms, but that there will be more passenger
using these platforms to travel east from Paddington having arrived on
a FGW service. Before the changes it was generally best (depending
slighlty on whether you were at the front or the rear of the train) to
goto the Circle / District platform if heading east (for either a
Circle train or to change at Edgware Road), but now it is best to goto
platform 16, as this is where the only through trains leave from.

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:45:08 +0100, Duncan wrote:

I can't see why the Circle line changes should have made any difference
to people exiting at Paddington. Sure the overall numbers arriving per
hour will have increased, but has the number of passengers exiting per
train really changed?

It is now the case that two trains worth of people can build up on the
platform (the second arriving while the first is still clearing). It
is at its worst when this happens.

At 12tph-ish, if it takes 10 minutes to clear the platform (this has
happened) you might even get a third train if you are unlucky.

Most people joining at stations like King's Cross heading to Paddington
got on the first service regardless of whether it was a Hammersmith &
City or Circle service.

Possibly. But I think going away from Padd that people would as a
whole "default" to the Circle Line, just because that's the known
quantity. Commuters, of course, will have their own way of doing
things, but there would at least be some split.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
news
Possibly. But I think going away from Padd that people would as a
whole "default" to the Circle Line, just because that's the known
quantity. Commuters, of course, will have their own way of doing
things, but there would at least be some split.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

If I am heading from Paddington to King's Cross or Liverpool St I normally
take a southbound Bakerloo train to Baker Street and then the Met line from
there. If there is a long wait for the Met I have the option of using the
Circle instead but normally I wait for the Met because it is less crowded.

John

In article ,
(Duncan) wrote:

I can't see why the Circle line changes should have made any
difference to people exiting at Paddington. Sure the overall
numbers arriving per hour will have increased, but has the number
of passengers exiting per train really changed?

Most people joining at stations like King's Cross heading to
Paddington got on the first service regardless of whether it was a
Hammersmith & City or Circle service. Therefore I would have
expected the pinch point on the stairs following the arrival of a
service to be the same now as before the changes.

There is no Circle service from King's Cross to Paddington any more! You
have to change at Edgware Road. If you are lucky it's cross-platform.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:57:05 -0500,
wrote:

There is no Circle service from King's Cross to Paddington any more!

Yes there is - it's just the *other* Paddington.

(OK, pedantic point. But "Circle Line" is still shown as a
destination on the trains that originated from the Circle!)

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

wrote in message
...

There is no Circle service from King's Cross to Paddington any more! You
have to change at Edgware Road. If you are lucky it's cross-platform.

There are 6 tph from Kings Cross to Paddington H&C.

Unless you are thinking ahead to the engineering works...

Paul S

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Interesting - if so, there might be something of a left-hand (FGW)
right-hand (LU) situation here - but it would be interesting to hear
more from regular users of these gates, or indeed see the usage stats
before and after, so as to be surer as to what degree the new Circle/
teacup line arrangement may have affected matters.

It has put a lot of extra passengers onto the bridge, who (like me)
might not have been there before. That said, it is a more convenient
service, with about 12tph to Euston instead of 6, and better spaced.

I suppose that one could put forward the case that it's used by
regular users, such as commuters, who are likely to have a season
ticket or Oyster card - and the gates could be configured to provide
'free passage' through the CTA (though such an arrangement is open to
abuse, with bods touching-out on the gate but not walking through it,
and instead staying within the CTA so as to board a train to
wherever).

That option is already available at any London terminal to anyone
holding a Travelcard with Zone 1 on it. Sometimes it is necessary to
exit through a manual gate, but it is a valid ticket to be on the
station. I've used it to use the bogs at City Thameslink before

It is a complication, though, as you say.

Must admit that I was a bit surprised when the Teacup/ Lasso
(whatever!) went ahead without there being any changes at Paddington
H&C platforms - I recall alighting there some time before the changes,
not during the rush-hour either (poss. shoulder-peak), and standing
right at the back of a queue of people waiting to climb the stairs (I
was in no rush) - the number of people hauling luggage up the stairs
(and not holding up for a moment for the non-luggaged folk to go
first) was a significant contributory factor, but even without the
luggage the number of people would have prevented a quick escape. I
spoke to the platform assistant on duty and he said it was always like
that!

They've started blocking people from going down when the platform is
dangerously full, and this seems to work, though they can only do it
for so long because it can create a crowd problem on the bridge if it
reaches back to the barriers. (Indeed, on the way in, the barriers
perhaps moderate this a bit, so there's one thing in favour of them).
This seems to work, though it's annoying if you have to let a train
go. They did it for the first time I've seen this morning - but the
infrastructure is still not up to it - a second set of stairs on the
other side is still needed.

One last thing - I dunno how it would compare to using the Circle/H&C
line (slower I'm sure), but one alternate option for a Paddington to
Euston journey might be the 18 (bendy) bus that traverses Harrow Road
- you'd need to use the aforementioned northern exit from Paddington,
and use the pedestrian subway under the road. The 18 is a busy route,
though it might be ok in the contra-peak direction. Just and idea -
though it might well be more useful in a snafu situation as opposed to
during the normal course of events (when others might be heading to
the front of Paddington for the 205 bus).

I did wonder which way the 18 went. Might give it a go tomorrow.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On 08/07/10 15:04, Mizter T wrote:
Must admit that I was a bit surprised when the Teacup/ Lasso
(whatever!) went ahead without there being any changes at Paddington
H&C platforms - I recall alighting there some time before the changes,
not during the rush-hour either (poss. shoulder-peak), and standing
right at the back of a queue of people waiting to climb the stairs (I
was in no rush) - the number of people hauling luggage up the stairs
(and not holding up for a moment for the non-luggaged folk to go
first) was a significant contributory factor, but even without the
luggage the number of people would have prevented a quick escape. I
spoke to the platform assistant on duty and he said it was always like
that!

Would it help if District and Circle trains were able to terminate at
Baker Street instead of Edgware Road so that passengers could continue
east on the Met? I suppose terminating trains at Baker Street or adding
platforms to do so would be hopelessly impractical? The gaps in service
on the Circle route between Edgware Road and Baker Street, and Aldgate
and Tower Hill have always struck me as being quite quite odd.

Roger