Greetings.

I just got back from a trip to Moscow. I made extensive use of the Metro
there and thought I'd post my observations on how it compares with the
London Underground.


Things I like better about the Moscow Metro:

* The trains seem to run a lot more frequently. I used the system on both
weekends and weekdays, at various times of the day (morning and evening
rush hours, mid-afternoon, and late at night), and never had to wait more
than three minutes for a train, even if I arrived just as one was leaving
the platform.

* The stations are (famously) very beautifully decorated with marble,
columns, chandeliers, statues, reliefs, murals, etc.

* The stations are very spacious. Even during the crowded rush hour in
central stations there was plenty of space to move around. I was able to
walk quite fast in the crowds; there was no crunching or bottlenecks along
the platforms, though sometimes there was a bit of queuing at the
escalators.

* There is little or no visual advertising. There were no posters on the
platforms or escalators, and inside the trains themselves there were
usually only a couple small recruitment posters next to the maps. However,
some stations did play audio ads on the escalators.

* The pricing is simple: it's 26 RUB for each journey, regardless of
distance or number of interchanges.

* The stations look so clean! In London many of the stations look very
grimy, particularly on the ceilings and far sides of the tunnels. In
Moscow many of the stations are gleaming white everywhere.

* The platforms and trains don't seem to get as hot as London. It was 30
degrees every day I was in Moscow, and yet travelling on the Metro wasn't
particularly uncomfortable. (The buses, on the other hand, were terrible.
Interestingly, instead of displaying the name of the next stop on the bus's
overhead LED display, it would display the internal and external
temperature. The former would be as high as 40 degrees.)

* There seems to be a mobile phone signal in many stations I passed through
(maybe all of them -- I didn't check).


Things I like better about the London Underground:

* Our stations have countdown timers showing the destination of and time to
the next two or three trains. (Though I'm particularly upset at the recent
penchant for installing advertising projectors right in front of them,
obscuring their view and thus making them completely useless from most
viewing angles.) However, this would not be quite so advantageous in
Moscow, where the trains seem to run quite often and the lines don't tend
to split.

* LU stations have better station identification on the platforms: the
station name tends to be repeated conspicuously several times along both
sides of the tunnel, making it easy to tell at a glance through the train
windows where you are. In most of the Moscow Metro stations I passed
through, there were only one or two station signs in the tunnels which
weren't visible from every car, or sometimes even from the platform. If
you weren't listening carefully to the announcements, or counting stations,
then it was impossible to know where you were. Even where signs were
posted, sometimes it was in a very stylized font that took a while to read.


Other observations:

* There was much more uniformed presence in the stations and on the trains.
Station staff and militsiya were numerous and highly visible, though quite
bored-looking.

* The stations don't have entry gates or turnstyles. The only defence
against fare-dodgers seemed to be some uniformed old women standing at the
entrance who would yell, "Aren't you ashamed of yourself!" at people who
passed through without a ticket.


If anyone else here has used both the London and Metro underground systems,
I'd be interested in hearing how you thought they compared.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

I found that the moscow metro was slightly less useful for tourists
because in the central area the stations seemed more spread out. It's
probably better for commuting and covering distance, but not so good
for popping between sights. On the other hand the ticketing was very
easy - go to the kiosk, hold up number of fingers for how many single
fares you need.

In message , Tristan Miller
writes

Even where signs were
posted, sometimes it was in a very stylized font that took a while to
read.

The thing that looks like an M is actually a T with droopy serifs. The
rest should be okay (in so far as any Cyrillic is okay).

Greetings.

In article , Basil Jet
wrote:

In message , Tristan Miller
writes

Even where signs were
posted, sometimes it was in a very stylized font that took a while to
read.

The thing that looks like an M is actually a T with droopy serifs. The
rest should be okay (in so far as any Cyrillic is okay).

I know letter you're talking about, but I didn't actually encounter that
particular representation. My complaint is that there is no consistency in
the typefaces used for the station signage; some of the station names are
rendered in fonts so stylized that they'd take a while to decipher even if
they were written in the Latin alphabet. For example, one of the stations
I passed through used an art deco–style font with very tall, thin letters,
with the crossbars set very high. It was hard to tell П from �. As bland
as it may be seeing Johnston used everywhere on the Underground and other
TfL services, you begin to appreciate it once you visit a public transit
system where there is no consistency.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

Greetings.

In article news:de18d0d1-dfb8-467c-
, skyguy wrote:
I found that the moscow metro was slightly less useful for tourists
because in the central area the stations seemed more spread out. It's
probably better for commuting and covering distance, but not so good
for popping between sights.

This disadvantage is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Moscow doesn't
actually have that many tourist sites. There aren't nearly as many museums
and historical buildings as, say, London or Vienna. But I do agree that
the stations are very far apart, even in the city centre. It's something I
noticed in Budapest and St. Petersburg as well.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

Greetings.

In article , Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Tristan Miller
writes
Greetings.

I just got back from a trip to Moscow. I made extensive use of the Metro
there and thought I'd post my observations on how it compares with the
London Underground.

Thanks **very** much for posting this.

We're off to Moscow (and Saint Petersburg) later in the summer and I'd
been wondering about some of the "transport" elements, for Metro,
trolleybus and indeed tram.

I do realise that the Metro is (relatively) accessible to visitors.
The trolleybuses also seem fairly easy to sample but I'm less sure about
the trams. The guide books I've read only refer to them "not being in
the centre" and largely gloss over them.

I didn't use or see any trams, though I did see signage for them in the
suburban Metro stations. The only transport I took was the Metro, the
buses, the marshrutkas, a riverboat cruise, a taxi from the airport, and a
the train back to the airport.

Did you take any photographs/have any problems taking them/not feel like
taking them/get threatened for taking them?

I took several photographs on the Metro and didn't have any problems
whatsoever doing so. With stations so ornate, the police and staff are
used to it. Just be considerate of commuters and don't get in anyone's
way. You can see the photos I took he
http://www.nothingisreal.com/photos/...2010-07/Metro/

Things I like better about the Moscow Metro:

* The trains seem to run a lot more frequently. I used the system on
both weekends and weekdays, at various times of the day (morning and
evening rush hours, mid-afternoon, and late at night), and never had to
wait more than three minutes for a train, even if I arrived just as one
was leaving the platform.

I seldom find I have to wait that long in Central London!

Really? I often have to wait five to seven minutes for the Central and
Northern Lines in Central London, and for the Jubilee Line at Stratford.

* The pricing is simple: it's 26 RUB for each journey, regardless of
distance or number of interchanges.

How do you buy tickets? Just individually at the ticket office? Is
there anything like Oyster or - more usefully for us - a Paris-style
Carnet?

I don't have any experience buying tickets, as my girlfriend gave me a card
good for ten trips. It was an ordinary-looking paper card that must have
had some embedded magnetic strip or chip in it; just like in London you
swiped it at the entrance to the station, and a display on the pillar told
you how many trips you had remaining. This card was not valid on the
buses, which used separate single-use tickets (again, purchased for me in
advance by my girlfriend, whence I know not) which were validated upon
boarding. The marshrutkas are cash-only; you pay the driver 25 RUB. When
several people board at once, rather than pay the driver individually, you
just give your fare to the passenger sitting next to you, who passes it on.
Whoever sits closest to the driver ends up with a big wad of cash which
they give the driver, telling him how many passengers it's for.

* There seems to be a mobile phone signal in many stations I passed
through (maybe all of them -- I didn't check).

Oh good....... ;-(

Don't worry; the trains stop briefly enough at the stations that nobody has
time to yak on the trains. However, people do send and receive texts at
the stations.

I've been warned about that. We're urgently trying to learn to
decipher Cyrillic letters. (SWMBO is very good at that sort of thing,
as I discovered in Greece.......)

If you know the Greek and Latin alphabets, then Cyrillic will be easy to
pick up. I've never had any training in Russian but within a couple days
of my first trip there I had no problem reading the signs. There are 33
letters, of which about two thirds closely match the sound of the Greek or
Latin letter they resemble. That leaves only Ж, И, Й, �, Ц, Ч, Ш, Щ, Ъ, Ы,
Ь, Ю, and Я. И (I) and � (N) you will decipher immediately because they're
so ubiquitous and found in international words and famous names; the first
time you see a statue or picture of Lenin with the sign "Ленин" you will
figure out those two letters right away.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

On Jul 13, 6:18Â*pm, Tristan Miller
wrote:

In article , Ian Jelf wrote:

In message , Tristan Miller
writes

* The pricing is simple: it's 26 RUB for each journey, regardless of
distance or number of interchanges.

How do you buy tickets? Â* Just individually at the ticket office? Â* Is
there anything like Oyster or - more usefully for us - a Paris-style
Carnet?

I don't have any experience buying tickets, as my girlfriend gave me a card
good for ten trips. Â*It was an ordinary-looking paper card that must have
had some embedded magnetic strip or chip in it; just like in London you
swiped it at the entrance to the station, and a display on the pillar told
you how many trips you had remaining. [...]

You tapped it on a reader, like an Oyster card, or shoved it in a
slot, like a paper ticket?

[...]Â*This card was not valid on the
buses, which used separate single-use tickets (again, purchased for me in
advance by my girlfriend, whence I know not) which were validated upon
boarding. Â*The marshrutkas are cash-only; you pay the driver 25 RUB. Â*When
several people board at once, rather than pay the driver individually, you
just give your fare to the passenger sitting next to you, who passes it on. Â*
Whoever sits closest to the driver ends up with a big wad of cash which
they give the driver, telling him how many passengers it's for.

So perhaps best for newcomers to try and sit at the back!

[snip]

I've been warned about that. Â* We're urgently trying to learn to
decipher Cyrillic letters. Â* (SWMBO is very good at that sort of Â*thing,
as I discovered in Greece.......)

If you know the Greek and Latin alphabets, then Cyrillic will be easy to
pick up. Â*I've never had any training in Russian but within a couple days
of my first trip there I had no problem reading the signs. Â*There are 33
letters, of which about two thirds closely match the sound of the Greek or
Latin letter they resemble. Â*That leaves only Ж, И, Й, Ð�, Ц, Ч, Ш, Щ, Ъ, Ы,
Ь, Ю, and Я. Â*И (I) and Ð� (N) you will decipher immediately because they're
so ubiquitous and found in international words and famous names; the first
time you see a statue or picture of Lenin with the sign "Ленин" you will
figure out those two letters right away.

I see a statue of Lenin fairly quite here in London, and from a train
no less - it's on the back of a workshop sandwiched between the
Walworth Road and the Elephant & Castle to Loughborough Jn/ Denmark
Hill railway line (the LCDR's City Branch, if anyone still calls it
that, aka the Thameslink route). You've got to be quick to catch it,
so I'm afraid any Cyrillic inscription thereon has evaded me thus far!

Very interesting post about the Moscow Metro, thanks - hasn't been
anything along these lines here for a while. Any other broader Moscow
recommendations that stand out to you as worthy of imparting to us utl-
ites? Afraid I'm not going there imminently, but would love to at some
point in the future.

And do I detect a Russian girlfriend in there? Her name isn't Anna
Kushchenko per chance... ;-)

Greetings.

In article news:dd2e1bf6-be6b-4e29-96ba-
, Mizter T wrote:
On Jul 13, 6:18 pm, Tristan Miller
wrote:

In article , Ian Jelf
wrote:

In message , Tristan Miller
writes

* The pricing is simple: it's 26 RUB for each journey, regardless of
distance or number of interchanges.

How do you buy tickets? Just individually at the ticket office? Is
there anything like Oyster or - more usefully for us - a Paris-style
Carnet?

I don't have any experience buying tickets, as my girlfriend gave me a
card good for ten trips. It was an ordinary-looking paper card that
must have had some embedded magnetic strip or chip in it; just like in
London you swiped it at the entrance to the station, and a display on
the pillar told you how many trips you had remaining. [...]

You tapped it on a reader, like an Oyster card, or shoved it in a
slot, like a paper ticket?

For the Metro, you tap your paper card on a reader, just like an Oyster
card. The light on the reader changes from red to green, and an LED
display tells you how many journeys you have left on your card. For the
buses, you insert your paper card into a slot; the machine then sucks it
in, prints something on the back, spits it back out again, and unlocks the
turnstile.

[...] This card was not valid on the
buses, which used separate single-use tickets (again, purchased for me
in advance by my girlfriend, whence I know not) which were validated
upon boarding. The marshrutkas are cash-only; you pay the driver 25
RUB. When several people board at once, rather than pay the driver
individually, you just give your fare to the passenger sitting next to
you, who passes it on. Whoever sits closest to the driver ends up with a
big wad of cash which they give the driver, telling him how many
passengers it's for.

So perhaps best for newcomers to try and sit at the back!

Well, that has its disadvantages as well. The marshrutkas stop only on
demand, so if you're in the back you'll have to yell out to the driver, in
whatever mangled Russian you can muster, when you want him to stop. (There
are no bells or buttons to signal a stop; it's all done orally.) In Moscow
I got my girlfriend to do the yelling; when I took the marshrutkas in St.
Petersburg in 2008 as a solo traveller, I just yelled out "Stop!" and that
seemed to work. (I saw the word "�топ" on various traffic signs, so I
figured it would be understandable even if it wasn't the usual way of
making the request.)

Very interesting post about the Moscow Metro, thanks - hasn't been
anything along these lines here for a while. Any other broader Moscow
recommendations that stand out to you as worthy of imparting to us utl-
ites? Afraid I'm not going there imminently, but would love to at some
point in the future.

Well, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but if anyone has
questions feel free to ask. Had I known people would find this sort of
post so interesting I would have written up some critiques of the Budapest
and Toronto subways as well. I used to live in each of those cities,
though years ago; my recollections are now hazy and out of date.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

Greetings.

In article , Paul Corfield
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:37:44 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

In message , Tristan Miller
writes
Greetings.

I just got back from a trip to Moscow. I made extensive use of the
Metro there and thought I'd post my observations on how it compares with
the London Underground.

Thanks **very** much for posting this.

We're off to Moscow (and Saint Petersburg) later in the summer and I'd
been wondering about some of the "transport" elements, for Metro,
trolleybus and indeed tram.

I'm mildly jealous but then I think I'd be a bit too nervous about
trogging off to Moscow on my own. I'd be concerned about the level of
crime and corruption and being badly ripped off.

FWIW, I didn't notice or experience any corruption from the Russian
authorities. I've been there three times now (to Kaliningrad, St.
Petersburg, and Moscow) and all the journeys have been uneventful. My
Russian friends also say they haven't experienced any corruption, such as
being issued with frivolous fines from ticket inspectors, customs officers,
police, etc., and one of them was even insulted by the notion that I
thought that sort of thing actually happened there. Unfortunately I can't
say the same about some other Eastern European countries. My Hungarian
friends and relatives are always complaining about how they have to bribe
the doctors there to get decent treatment, and when I visited Sofia last
September a ticket inspector intercepted my payment to a bus driver and
then fined me for fare dodging. When I refused to pay him, he called the
police, who accepted his word against mine and three Bulgarian witnesses
who gracefully spoke up in my defence.

As for crime, your greatest risk is probably pickpockets, which are no
doubt just as much a pest in London. Keep hold of your valuables when
travelling and you probably won't have any problems.

There are also zillions of private midibuses (there is a name for them
but I can't recall it) scuttling all over the City which has helped
remove patronage from the tramway system.

They're called marshrutkas; I've discussed them in other posts in this
thread. They're not at all tourist-friendly, but not difficult to use if
it's explained to you in advance how to use them and which one you need to
take.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

On 13/07/2010 16:37, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Tristan Miller
writes
Greetings.

I just got back from a trip to Moscow. I made extensive use of the Metro
there and thought I'd post my observations on how it compares with the
London Underground.

Thanks **very** much for posting this.

We're off to Moscow (and Saint Petersburg) later in the summer and I'd
been wondering about some of the "transport" elements, for Metro,
trolleybus and indeed tram.

I do realise that the Metro is (relatively) accessible to visitors. The
trolleybuses also seem fairly easy to sample but I'm less sure about the
trams. The guide books I've read only refer to them "not being in the
centre" and largely gloss over them.

Did you take any photographs/have any problems taking them/not feel like
taking them/get threatened for taking them?


Things I like better about the Moscow Metro:

* The trains seem to run a lot more frequently. I used the system on both
weekends and weekdays, at various times of the day (morning and evening
rush hours, mid-afternoon, and late at night), and never had to wait more
than three minutes for a train, even if I arrived just as one was leaving
the platform.
I seldom find I have to wait that long in Central London!


* The stations are (famously) very beautifully decorated with marble,
columns, chandeliers, statues, reliefs, murals, etc.

Much like Gants Hill, then? ;-)


A short line about Gants Hill, taken from Wikipedia.

"The station, like many others on the same branch, was designed by
notable Tube architect Charles Holden; during the planning period London
Underground advised on the construction of the new Moscow Metro, which
is why the barrel-vaulted halls of Gants Hill echo many stations on the
Russian capital's system."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gants_Hill_tube_station



* The pricing is simple: it's 26 RUB for each journey, regardless of
distance or number of interchanges.

.... the equivalent of 55p.