On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:03:37 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

I ordered mine successfully (needed to get a Photocard first though),
and it says you can't use your credit until 4th January.

I'm a bit disappointed you won't be able to use it on buses straight
away though. I guess they're waiting for conductors on Routemaster
routes to be given hand-held readers, otherwise you'd end up receiving a
free trip.

Another thought I had - is there an Oyster reader at each entrance on a
bendybus?

I'd like to know what's going to happen when using WAGN services.
Certain Underground tickets can be used between Seven Sisters,
Tottenham Hale and Walthamstow Central and the intermediate statins.

If there's no reader at one of these National Rail stations, how do
Oyster know the journey has ended and not charge a zone 1-6 fare?


Cheers,

Jason.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:40:42 +0000, Jason wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:03:37 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

I ordered mine successfully (needed to get a Photocard first though),
and it says you can't use your credit until 4th January.

I'm a bit disappointed you won't be able to use it on buses straight
away though. I guess they're waiting for conductors on Routemaster
routes to be given hand-held readers, otherwise you'd end up receiving a
free trip.

Another thought I had - is there an Oyster reader at each entrance on a
bendybus?

Not at present but a further installation programme is due to add them
at the second and third entrance / exits.

I'd like to know what's going to happen when using WAGN services.
Certain Underground tickets can be used between Seven Sisters,
Tottenham Hale and Walthamstow Central and the intermediate statins.

If there's no reader at one of these National Rail stations, how do
Oyster know the journey has ended and not charge a zone 1-6 fare?

But you cannot use the tickets at any intermediate station as I
understand matters. You will note at Walthamstow Central that the
validators have been installed at the entrances to both WAGN platforms.
They do need to be connected to power and data cables so I would imagine
this will happen shortly. Haven't looked at Tottenham Hale or Seven
Sisters but I'd imagine there would only be an interchange validator at
Seven Sisters as the street entrance is gated; Tottenham Hale will need
something separate for the WAGN area.

--
Paul C
Admits to Working for London Underground!

But you cannot use the tickets at any intermediate station as I
understand matters.

This was discussed in another thread and although that is what the TfL
literature says I believe the conclusion was that the situation had now
changed though I must admit I didn't quite follow it.

Haven't looked at Tottenham Hale or Seven
Sisters but I'd imagine there would only be an interchange validator at
Seven Sisters as the street entrance is gated

Seven Sisters does indeed have validators on both sides of the passageway
leading to and from the WAGN platforms. They have been there several months
at least and were presumably installed at the same time as those on the
gates.

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:24:52 -0000, "Graham J" wrote:

But you cannot use the tickets at any intermediate station as I
understand matters.

This was discussed in another thread and although that is what the TfL
literature says I believe the conclusion was that the situation had now
changed though I must admit I didn't quite follow it.

If we're thinking of the same thread, I thought that was about LT
cards. I'm talking about singles/returns.

See printed page 18 / PDF page 11 of -
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf

"Tube singles, returns, season tickets, One Day
LT Cards, ‘Youth’ LT Card seasons and Group Day
tickets can also be used on a number of joint
routes and services with National Rail.
Tickets must be valid between the appropriate
joint stations or zones. The routes a
[snip]
Liverpool Street to Walthamstow Central/
Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters
(but not at intermediate stations for holders
of LT Cards)"


Cheers,

Jason.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:21:42 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:40:42 +0000, Jason wrote:
I'd like to know what's going to happen when using WAGN services.
Certain Underground tickets can be used between Seven Sisters,
Tottenham Hale and Walthamstow Central and the intermediate statins.

But you cannot use the tickets at any intermediate station as I
understand matters. You will note at Walthamstow Central that the

See printed page 18 / PDF page 11 of -
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf

"Tube singles, returns, season tickets, One Day
LT Cards, ‘Youth’ LT Card seasons and Group Day
tickets can also be used on a number of joint
routes and services with National Rail.
Tickets must be valid between the appropriate
joint stations or zones. The routes a
[snip]
Liverpool Street to Walthamstow Central/
Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters
(but not at intermediate stations for holders
of LT Cards)"

validators have been installed at the entrances to both WAGN platforms.

Of particular interest to me is St James Street, which isn't an
Underground interchange. If there's no reader, Oyster won't know the
journey has ended and will charge a zone 1-6 fare.


Cheers,

Jason.

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 01:44:35 +0000, Jason wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:21:42 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:40:42 +0000, Jason wrote:
I'd like to know what's going to happen when using WAGN services.
Certain Underground tickets can be used between Seven Sisters,
Tottenham Hale and Walthamstow Central and the intermediate statins.

But you cannot use the tickets at any intermediate station as I
understand matters. You will note at Walthamstow Central that the

See printed page 18 / PDF page 11 of -
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fa...ts-may2003.pdf

"Tube singles, returns, season tickets, One Day
LT Cards, ‘Youth’ LT Card seasons and Group Day
tickets can also be used on a number of joint
routes and services with National Rail.
Tickets must be valid between the appropriate
joint stations or zones. The routes a
[snip]
Liverpool Street to Walthamstow Central/
Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters
(but not at intermediate stations for holders
of LT Cards)"

Well you learn something new everyday. I do find that a very odd ruling
in the way singles and returns are OK but LT cards are not. Must be
something to do with the apportionment process or somesuch.

validators have been installed at the entrances to both WAGN platforms.

Of particular interest to me is St James Street, which isn't an
Underground interchange. If there's no reader, Oyster won't know the
journey has ended and will charge a zone 1-6 fare.

Well given the above info re the validity then equipment should be being
installed at Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath, London Fields, Hackney
Downs, Clapton, St James St, Rectory Road, Stoke Newington and Stamford
Hill stations. That's quite an undertaking in such a short time.

I've also spotted a problem given the recent decision to close the
Walthamstow Central Ticket hall after 21.00. All the validators are in
there and the side gate has no such facility. Therefore inter available
pre-pay will not work where validators are not provided at these late
night side exits - I believe Stoke Newington station certainly works
like this.
--
Paul C
Admits to Working for London Underground!

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:24:01 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Well you learn something new everyday. I do find that a very odd ruling
in the way singles and returns are OK but LT cards are not. Must be
something to do with the apportionment process or somesuch.

Presumably the single/return would be an NR ticket at the NR fare and
not a LUL one.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null.
Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me.

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:31:49 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:24:01 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Well you learn something new everyday. I do find that a very odd ruling
in the way singles and returns are OK but LT cards are not. Must be
something to do with the apportionment process or somesuch.

Presumably the single/return would be an NR ticket at the NR fare and
not a LUL one.

No - that's the whole point of interavailability - the fare will be the
cheapest one - i.e. LUL. It removes the anomaly of there being two fares
for the same trip. The ticket may be issued on NR stock though - as LUL
trips are from the WAGN ticket office at Walthamstow.

Under the old fares the WAGN fare was considerably more than the LUL one
to Walthamstow. If you just lowered the fare to Walthamstow then it
would almost certainly be the case that St James St, Clapton and
probably Hackney Downs fares would be higher than WWCS and for a shorter
distance. The other knock on is that fares to Chingford may also have
fallen because you would get a big step change in the fare scale if you
had LUL fares to WWCS and then old WAGN scale beyond it.

While I am pleased that WAGN have aligned their fares I would be
interested to see what deal has been done to finance it because it took
years to get Silverlink to agree to a zonal fare basis north of Queens
Park as far as Kenton. I expect that Harrow and Wealdstone hasn't been
aligned because other trains stop there and you would have a ripple
effect all the way up the West Coast line for Silverlink fares. It may
also be a priced station for fare summation purposes and if it was "too
cheap" it would also cause a loss of revenue for Silverlink.
--
Paul C
Admits to Working for London Underground!

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:24:01 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:40:42 +0000, Jason wrote:
I'd like to know what's going to happen when using WAGN services.
Certain Underground tickets can be used between Seven Sisters,
Tottenham Hale and Walthamstow Central and the intermediate statins.

Well given the above info re the validity then equipment should be being
installed at Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath, London Fields, Hackney
Downs, Clapton, St James St, Rectory Road, Stoke Newington and Stamford
Hill stations. That's quite an undertaking in such a short time.

It now appears people using the non-Undergound interchange
"intermediate stations" on the WAGN lines to Walthamstow, Tottenham
Hale and Seven Sisters will pay more when using single tickets:

http://www.transportforlondon.gov.uk...2004-fares.pdf
PDF page 11 / Booklet page 23

"Inter-availability of tickets and Pre Pay on
National Rail services

Liverpool Street to Walthamstow Central/
Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters (Pre Pay only:
not at intermediate stations)"

Therefore a single from Walthamstow Central to Zone 1 via WAGN or the
Victoria line is £2.30 using Oyster Pre-pay. For those at a zone 3
station who can't use Oyster (National Rail only) it will be £2.50.

This will get worse on the weekend:
Walthamstow Central Pre-Pay Z1-3 £1.80 single / £3.60 return.
National Rail Z1-3 £2.50 single / £5.00 return. (Although an off-peak
TC @ £4.70 is cheaper)

Utter madness - and willl certainly lead to even higher levels of fare
evasion on National Rail services.


Cheers,

Jason.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:21:01 +0000, Jason wrote:

[Oyster Pre-Pay *not* available at intermediate WAGN stations between
Liverpool Street and Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central]

Utter madness - and willl certainly lead to even higher levels of fare
evasion on National Rail services.

Somehow I don't think anyone would really notice, at least not for
intermediate journeys. Okay, there's barriers at Liverpool Street (when
they're in operation), but it's pretty rare for WAGN to do station
blocks elsewhere on the West Anglia side, other than during the peaks,
and even rarer to see Revenue Protection staff on board trains.

A complete contrast to the Great Northern side, where they regularly
have ticket checks at stations in the morning peak (at least stations
from Palmers Green to Harringay [inclusive] on the Hertford Loop), with
random checks on board trains at other times.

Cya,

Barry

--
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the
views of my employers.