On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 18:37:08 +0100, Peter Smyth
wrote:
Does anyone know if there any plans to build any new stations and/or
extra platforms to link up some of the existing bits of rail
infrastructure in the London area? Some of the proposals/ideas below are
more ambitious than others, but here's a list of some possible
interchanges. Broadly, they're listed in A to Z page order, starting in
NW London and finishing in the SE.

22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly

Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to be
going ahead.

The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically it's
still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London Underground
were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped if housing is
built instead of offices.

A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at Park
Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and number of
interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most strained. And
they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of lateral thinking seems
to be beyond London Underground.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
newsp.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog
On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 18:37:08 +0100, Peter Smyth
wrote:
Does anyone know if there any plans to build any new stations and/or
extra platforms to link up some of the existing bits of rail
infrastructure in the London area? Some of the proposals/ideas
below are more ambitious than others, but here's a list of some
possible interchanges. Broadly, they're listed in A to Z page
order, starting in NW London and finishing in the SE.

22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly

Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be going ahead.

The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground were never keen, and the condition is likely to be
dropped if housing is built instead of offices.

Yes, the second office building still looks unlet, so I don't suppose
they'll be in any hurry to build more.

In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on Fri, 6 Aug 2010,
Colin McKenzie remarked:
22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly

Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be going ahead.

The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is built instead of offices.

A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems to be beyond London Underground.

It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.
--
Roland Perry

On 10 Aug, 07:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on Fri, 6 Aug 2010,
Colin McKenzie remarked:





22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly

Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be * going ahead.

The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's *still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground *were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is *built instead of offices.

A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park *Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of *interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And *they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems *to be beyond London Underground.

It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.
--
Roland Perry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?

On Aug 10, 8:09*am, Paul wrote:
[snip]
One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. *This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. *Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?

The City branch of the Northern line is already crammed solid during
rush hour - even if the line is eventually split, and super-dooper new
ATO signalling means services can run more frequently, it still
wouldn't create the kind of capacity that could cope with untold extra
passengers joining the line at a new station south of Morden.

I think conversion to tram operation (as part of Tramlink) would be
the most promising course of action for the Wimbledon-Sutton 'wall of
death' line, though quite how that'd be handled at the Wimbledon end
is another question. Well, for that matter, how it'd be handled at the
Sutton end is also a very valid question!

Mizter T wrote:
On Aug 10, 8:09 am, Paul wrote:
[snip]
One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?

The City branch of the Northern line is already crammed solid during
rush hour - even if the line is eventually split, and super-dooper new
ATO signalling means services can run more frequently, it still
wouldn't create the kind of capacity that could cope with untold extra
passengers joining the line at a new station south of Morden.

I think conversion to tram operation (as part of Tramlink) would be
the most promising course of action for the Wimbledon-Sutton 'wall of
death' line, though quite how that'd be handled at the Wimbledon end
is another question. Well, for that matter, how it'd be handled at the
Sutton end is also a very valid question!

Where would the tram stops be?

--
Tony Dragon

Paul wrote:
On 10 Aug, 07:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on Fri, 6 Aug 2010,
Colin McKenzie remarked:





22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly
Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be going ahead.
The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is built instead of offices.
A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems to be beyond London Underground.
It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.
--
Roland Perry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?

Is there not a mosque in the way?

--
Tony Dragon

On Aug 10, 2:51*pm, Tony Dragon wrote:
Paul wrote:
On 10 Aug, 07:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on Fri, 6 Aug 2010,
Colin McKenzie remarked:

22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly
Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be * going ahead.
The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's *still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground *were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is *built instead of offices.
A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park *Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of *interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And *they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems *to be beyond London Underground.
It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.
--
Roland Perry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. *This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. *Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?

Is there not a mosque in the way?


Not really. The mosque is adjacent to the main part of the platforms,
but the southernmost tracks of the depot could easily be extended
without infringing on the mosque itself (although the car park may be
affected). I think the only thing you might lose is the scout hall.

You could do one of four things:

(1) Extend the Northern Line to a terminus on the site of the mosque's
unpaved overflow parking, with a southern entrance on Central Road and
a footbridge at the northern end running to the southern end of the NR
platform.

(2) Extend the Northern Line to run parallel to the Wall of Death from
just south of Morden South to St Helier. Again, you'd take a bit of
the mosque parking, but not very much.

(3) Create a flat junction south of Morden South and run onto Network
Rail metals to Sutton. Chances are the Health and Safety people would
scream blue murder due to the different platform heights though.

(4) Fix the platform heights in (3) and make Morden-Sutton exclusively
a Northern Line service. Extend Tramlink from Wimbledon to a new
interchange station at Central Road (or, indeed, to St Helier, with
Tramlink potentially continuing on Wrythe Lane through Carshalton and
back to Croydon by a different route)

Alistair Bell wrote:
On Aug 10, 2:51 pm, Tony Dragon wrote:
Paul wrote:
On 10 Aug, 07:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message op.vg09em1lby8eno@sheepdog, at 21:19:24 on Fri, 6 Aug 2010,
Colin McKenzie remarked:
22. Park Royal: Central, Piccadilly
Anyone know what happened to this one? A few years ago it seemed to
be going ahead.
The office development that was to fund it has stalled. Theoretically
it's still a requirement if all the offices get built, but London
Underground were never keen, and the condition is likely to be dropped
if housing is built instead of offices.
A pity, and I still hope it goes ahead. It's easy to work out that
passengers from further out on Piccadilly or Central lines, going to a
zone 1 or 2 destination on the other line, benefit from changing at
Park Royal. So does LU, as it reduces number of stations passed and
number of interchanges made in zone 1, where tube capacity is most
strained. And they're more likely to get a seat. But this sort of
lateral thinking seems to be beyond London Underground.
It's also possible that people living "further out on the Piccadilly"
would use it as a short cut to/from the West End, thereby overloading
the Central.
--
Roland Perry- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
One (relatively cheap) proposal would be to extend the Northern Line
from Morden to Morden South and provide an interchange with the
station on the Wimbledon - Sutton loop. This would be useful for
people living in the Sutton area. On the other hand, it might overload
the Northern Line, which wouldn't go down well with people in Tooting,
Balham and Clapham. Would this be feasible if the Northern Line were
ever permanently split in two?
Is there not a mosque in the way?


Not really. The mosque is adjacent to the main part of the platforms,
but the southernmost tracks of the depot could easily be extended
without infringing on the mosque itself (although the car park may be
affected). I think the only thing you might lose is the scout hall.

You could do one of four things:

(1) Extend the Northern Line to a terminus on the site of the mosque's
unpaved overflow parking, with a southern entrance on Central Road and
a footbridge at the northern end running to the southern end of the NR
platform.

(2) Extend the Northern Line to run parallel to the Wall of Death from
just south of Morden South to St Helier. Again, you'd take a bit of
the mosque parking, but not very much.

You would have to widen Central Road bridge & the cutting or perhaps
make the BR line single.

(3) Create a flat junction south of Morden South and run onto Network
Rail metals to Sutton. Chances are the Health and Safety people would
scream blue murder due to the different platform heights though.

To say nothing about the different heights of Morden South Station & the
Northern Line.

(4) Fix the platform heights in (3) and make Morden-Sutton exclusively
a Northern Line service. Extend Tramlink from Wimbledon to a new
interchange station at Central Road (or, indeed, to St Helier, with
Tramlink potentially continuing on Wrythe Lane through Carshalton and
back to Croydon by a different route)

What would serve South Merton & Wimbledon Chase?


--
Tony Dragon

On Aug 11, 2:00*am, Tony Dragon wrote:
Alistair Bell wrote:

(3) Create a flat junction south of Morden South and run onto Network
Rail metals to Sutton. Chances are the Health and Safety people would
scream blue murder due to the different platform heights though.

To say nothing about the different heights of Morden South Station & the
Northern Line.

I don't think that's a big deal. There's more than enough room to
climb alongside the depot.

(4) Fix the platform heights in (3) and make Morden-Sutton exclusively
a Northern Line service. Extend Tramlink from Wimbledon to a new
interchange station at Central Road (or, indeed, to St Helier, with
Tramlink potentially continuing on Wrythe Lane through Carshalton and
back to Croydon by a different route)

What would serve South Merton & Wimbledon Chase?

Tramlink. Either a tag-end service from Wimbledon to Wimbledon Chase,
South Merton, Morden South and St Helier, or a second Wimbledon-
Croydon route. Having thought about it again, I suspect the actual
answer would be a Wimbledon-St Helier-Rose Hill-Sutton High Street
service, possibly continuing to Croydon onstreet.

I'm not saying any of this would be all that cheap (fer cryin' out
loud, look how much we spent on the supposedly simple East London
Line) but it probably _is_ cheap enough to be feasible if it's
desirable. (Not in the current Coalition 'let's slash everything'
mindset, of course.)