Oyster Card top-up users double charged

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10907906

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up
Some passengers have been double charged when topping up their Oyster
Cards, BBC London has learnt.

A Freedom of Information request shows Transport for London (TfL) has
refunded £40,000 this year to customers who have been over-charged by
faulty machines.

The information also shows there have been 2,421 complaints in 2010
about being double charged when adding credit to the electronic travel
smartcard.

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up.

'Monitor continuously'

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

The Freedom of Information requested information shows the machines at
London Bridge, Victoria, Liverpool Street and King Cross stations led
to the highest number of complaints.

Shashi Verna, from TfL, said: "We monitor the system continuously to
make sure the problems are not becoming bigger, and there is no
evidence they are becoming bigger.

"But we constantly check the screens on ticket machines and how the
ticket machines are set up to minimise these problems."

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

Oyster Card top-up users double charged

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10907906

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up
Some passengers have been double charged when topping up their Oyster
Cards, BBC London has learnt.

A Freedom of Information request shows Transport for London (TfL) has
refunded £40,000 this year to customers who have been over-charged by
faulty machines.

The information also shows there have been 2,421 complaints in 2010
about being double charged when adding credit to the electronic travel
smartcard.

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up.

'Monitor continuously'

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

The Freedom of Information requested information shows the machines at
London Bridge, Victoria, Liverpool Street and King Cross stations led
to the highest number of complaints.

Shashi Verna, from TfL, said: "We monitor the system continuously to
make sure the problems are not becoming bigger, and there is no
evidence they are becoming bigger.

"But we constantly check the screens on ticket machines and how the
ticket machines are set up to minimise these problems."

I'm not sure 'rip-off' is the correct term as a rip-off implies intent
to over-charge and I am sure TfL has no such intent. This sounds like
a technical problem in a system that offers huge benefits to the
travelling public, which I am sure TfL are working to resolve.

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 22:24:07 +0100 someone who may be Scott
wrote this:-

I'm not sure 'rip-off' is the correct term as a rip-off implies intent
to over-charge and I am sure TfL has no such intent.

Are you? Why?

It is very convenient for rip-off merchants to claim that they
didn't intend to rip people off, it was something beyond their
control. The Tony B Liar approach.

This sounds like a technical problem

Yea, yeah, yeah. The machines did it all on their own, nothing at
all to do with the way they were programmed by Boris and his
henchmen.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On 08/08/2010 23:14, David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 22:24:07 +0100 someone who may be Scott
wrote this:-

I'm not sure 'rip-off' is the correct term as a rip-off implies intent
to over-charge and I am sure TfL has no such intent.

Are you? Why?

It is very convenient for rip-off merchants to claim that they
didn't intend to rip people off, it was something beyond their
control. The Tony B Liar approach.

Don't forget the police, and a cryptic reference to England.

This sounds like a technical problem

Yea, yeah, yeah. The machines did it all on their own, nothing at
all to do with the way they were programmed by Boris and his
henchmen.

Boris crept in when Ken wasn't looking and sabotaged the machines?

And surely Thatcher must be to blame somehow?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

Oyster Card top-up users double charged

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10907906

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up
Some passengers have been double charged when topping up their Oyster
Cards, BBC London has learnt.

A Freedom of Information request shows Transport for London (TfL) has
refunded £40,000 this year to customers who have been over-charged by
faulty machines.

The information also shows there have been 2,421 complaints in 2010
about being double charged when adding credit to the electronic travel
smartcard.

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up.

'Monitor continuously'

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

The Freedom of Information requested information shows the machines at
London Bridge, Victoria, Liverpool Street and King Cross stations led
to the highest number of complaints.

Shashi Verna, from TfL, said: "We monitor the system continuously to
make sure the problems are not becoming bigger, and there is no
evidence they are becoming bigger.

"But we constantly check the screens on ticket machines and how the
ticket machines are set up to minimise these problems."

I'm not sure 'rip-off' is the correct term as a rip-off implies intent
to over-charge and I am sure TfL has no such intent. This sounds like
a technical problem in a system that offers huge benefits to the
travelling public, which I am sure TfL are working to resolve.

The story is not clear about exactly what is happening. It could be that
people are being charged £10 for £5 of credit (which would be a serious
fault). Or it could be people are pressing the wrong button on the
machine by mistake and buying £10 of credit when they actually only
wanted £5.

Peter Smyth

On Aug 9, 12:06*am, "Peter Smyth" wrote:

"Scott" wrote:

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

Oyster Card top-up users double charged

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10907906

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up
Some passengers have been double charged when topping up their Oyster
Cards, BBC London has learnt.

A Freedom of Information request shows Transport for London (TfL) has
refunded £40,000 this year to customers who have been over-charged by
faulty machines.

The information also shows there have been 2,421 complaints in 2010
about being double charged when adding credit to the electronic travel
smartcard.

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up.

'Monitor continuously'

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

The Freedom of Information requested information shows the machines at
London Bridge, Victoria, Liverpool Street and King Cross stations led
to the highest number of complaints.

Shashi Verna, from TfL, said: "We monitor the system continuously to
make sure the problems are not becoming bigger, and there is no
evidence they are becoming bigger.

"But we constantly check the screens on ticket machines and how the
ticket machines are set up to minimise these problems."

I'm not sure 'rip-off' is the correct term as a rip-off implies intent
to over-charge and I am sure TfL has no such intent. *This sounds like
a technical problem in a system that offers huge benefits to the
travelling public, which I am sure TfL are working to resolve.

The story is not clear about exactly what is happening. It could be that
people are being charged £10 for £5 of credit (which would be a serious
fault). Or it could be people are pressing the wrong button on the
machine by mistake and buying £10 of credit when they actually only
wanted £5.

Without any further information, it's hard to get a handle on what
this story might be about.

I do just wonder whether it is our old friend, the Oyster out-of-
station-interchange maximum journey time-out issue though... (no, I
can't bear to explain it again!).

On 9 Aug, 00:25, Mizter T wrote:
On Aug 9, 12:06*am, "Peter Smyth" wrote:





"Scott" wrote:

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

Oyster Card top-up users double charged

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10907906

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up
Some passengers have been double charged when topping up their Oyster
Cards, BBC London has learnt.

A Freedom of Information request shows Transport for London (TfL) has
refunded £40,000 this year to customers who have been over-charged by
faulty machines.

The information also shows there have been 2,421 complaints in 2010
about being double charged when adding credit to the electronic travel
smartcard.

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up.

'Monitor continuously'

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

The Freedom of Information requested information shows the machines at
London Bridge, Victoria, Liverpool Street and King Cross stations led
to the highest number of complaints.

Shashi Verna, from TfL, said: "We monitor the system continuously to
make sure the problems are not becoming bigger, and there is no
evidence they are becoming bigger.

"But we constantly check the screens on ticket machines and how the
ticket machines are set up to minimise these problems."

I'm not sure 'rip-off' is the correct term as a rip-off implies intent
to over-charge and I am sure TfL has no such intent. *This sounds like
a technical problem in a system that offers huge benefits to the
travelling public, which I am sure TfL are working to resolve.

The story is not clear about exactly what is happening. It could be that
people are being charged £10 for £5 of credit (which would be a serious
fault). Or it could be people are pressing the wrong button on the
machine by mistake and buying £10 of credit when they actually only
wanted £5.

Without any further information, it's hard to get a handle on what
this story might be about.

I do just wonder whether it is our old friend, the Oyster out-of-
station-interchange maximum journey time-out issue though... (no, I
can't bear to explain it again!).-

The TV was on in the background, so I should have concentrated better,
but I couldn't work out whether the story was about being overcharged
when topping up or being overcharged for journeys. I suspect the
latter reported as if the former, by people who have a vague idea of
"buying tickets" at a particular price and can't interpret
"overcharge" in any other way.

On Aug 9, 9:31*am, MIG wrote:
On 9 Aug, 00:25, Mizter T wrote:





On Aug 9, 12:06*am, "Peter Smyth" wrote:

"Scott" wrote:

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:11:42 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

Oyster Card top-up users double charged

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10907906

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up
Some passengers have been double charged when topping up their Oyster
Cards, BBC London has learnt.

A Freedom of Information request shows Transport for London (TfL) has
refunded £40,000 this year to customers who have been over-charged by
faulty machines.

The information also shows there have been 2,421 complaints in 2010
about being double charged when adding credit to the electronic travel
smartcard.

TfL is advising people to check their bank accounts after topping up.

'Monitor continuously'

TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

The Freedom of Information requested information shows the machines at
London Bridge, Victoria, Liverpool Street and King Cross stations led
to the highest number of complaints.

Shashi Verna, from TfL, said: "We monitor the system continuously to
make sure the problems are not becoming bigger, and there is no
evidence they are becoming bigger.

"But we constantly check the screens on ticket machines and how the
ticket machines are set up to minimise these problems."

I'm not sure 'rip-off' is the correct term as a rip-off implies intent
to over-charge and I am sure TfL has no such intent. *This sounds like
a technical problem in a system that offers huge benefits to the
travelling public, which I am sure TfL are working to resolve.

The story is not clear about exactly what is happening. It could be that
people are being charged £10 for £5 of credit (which would be a serious
fault). Or it could be people are pressing the wrong button on the
machine by mistake and buying £10 of credit when they actually only
wanted £5.

Without any further information, it's hard to get a handle on what
this story might be about.

I do just wonder whether it is our old friend, the Oyster out-of-
station-interchange maximum journey time-out issue though... (no, I
can't bear to explain it again!).-

The TV was on in the background, so I should have concentrated better,
but I couldn't work out whether the story was about being overcharged
when topping up or being overcharged for journeys. *I suspect the
latter reported as if the former, by people who have a vague idea of
"buying tickets" at a particular price and can't interpret
"overcharge" in any other way.

The story in the original post clearly states that some people have
been charged twice when topping up at machines, there is no mention of
other problems with charges for actual journeys.

On Aug 9, 9:31*am, MIG wrote:

On 9 Aug, 00:25, Mizter T wrote:

On Aug 9, 12:06*am, "Peter Smyth" wrote:
[snip]
The story is not clear about exactly what is happening. It could be that
people are being charged £10 for £5 of credit (which would be a serious
fault). Or it could be people are pressing the wrong button on the
machine by mistake and buying £10 of credit when they actually only
wanted £5.

Without any further information, it's hard to get a handle on what
this story might be about.

I do just wonder whether it is our old friend, the Oyster out-of-
station-interchange maximum journey time-out issue though... (no, I
can't bear to explain it again!).-

The TV was on in the background, so I should have concentrated better,
but I couldn't work out whether the story was about being overcharged
when topping up or being overcharged for journeys. *I suspect the
latter reported as if the former, by people who have a vague idea of
"buying tickets" at a particular price and can't interpret
"overcharge" in any other way.

Having just looked at the BBC article again it does appear to be an
issue about topping up at the ticket machines - these excepts are
fairly clear in suggesting that:

---quote---
The information also shows there have been 2,421 complaints in 2010
about being double charged when adding credit to the electronic travel
smartcard.
[snip]
Shashi Verna, from TfL, said: "We monitor the system continuously to
make sure the problems are not becoming bigger, and there is no
evidence they are becoming bigger.

"But we constantly check the screens on ticket machines and how the
ticket machines are set up to minimise these problems."
---/quote---

I did wonder whether there was any way in which auto-topup could
somehow have been muddled up with this, e.g. people getting hit with
the max fare charge 'double whammy' have auto-topup enabled, but that
doesn't really make much sense as they would only be topped up once
when their PAYG balance fell below £5 and their nominated card would
only be charged once - the except above is pretty clear in suggesting
that there's been an issue with the actual ticket machines.

So whilst I appreciate that various different issues can get muddled
together inadvertently, it doesn't appear to be a case of that
happening in this instance (hence our old friend the Oyster OSI
maximum journey time-out issue hasn't come out to play here!).

In message
, at
14:11:42 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, CJB remarked:
TfL explained that it could not be aware of any over-charging until
the issue was reported by a passenger.

Apart, of course, from looking for cards where there were two top-up
[bank charges] on the same day.

Yes - some passengers will do that, but that doesn't actually matter.
What you are looking for is top-ups where there were two debits but only
one amount of credit added.
--
Roland Perry