On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Andrew H
wrote:
Now that Oyster Pay as you Go is valid on National Rail (although it
may already have been valid on Thameslink? but was all a bit vague and
confusing), I used the Thameslink route for the first time this year,
and realised that once Blackfriars south bank entrance is open, it
will be a handy link straight to the south bank and the popular thames
walkway/London Eye/Tate Modern/Millennium Bridge etc. At off peak
times a more comfortable journey than using the Northern line from
Euston.


It will be a very long walk from Thameslink's Blackfriars southern
exit to the London Eye. I doubt that even 1% of tourists would
consider it.

As so often on uk.railway, posters only consider their own personal
situation and seem to lack any ability to give a moment's thought to
what most normal people would want, and do.

The vast majority of tourists would find staying in the thoroughly
seedy Kings Cross area quite repugnant. If anything is going to put
them off returning to London, that's it.

The situation may well improve over the next few years as the new
Kings Cross and St Pancras International is completed (the hotel is
still under construction) and the area is cleaned up. But for the
time being, it is a particularly unpleasant place to be.

So for some years hence, the vast majority of people who come to
London will still find accommodation among the thousands of hotels
that are to be found to the west, and of which trainspotters seem
completely unaware. Perhaps I should not be so surprised that
trainspotters are so out of touch with normal people - it's the nature
of the hobby, I suppose, and its close connection with autism.

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...


"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:42:40 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:26:19 -0700 (PDT), Neal
wrote:

I personally think it should be branded as part of and integrated into
the Crossrail system rather than 'Thameslink' so that we move to a
more Paris style - Metro / RER (Tube / Crossrail).

I suppose that fits with the branding, as Crossrail would then have a
network in the shape of a cross.

Or, you could call Thameslink "First Capital Connect" and Crossrail
"Second Capital Connect".

The Chelsea-Hackney route would be "Third Capital Connect".

Or how about Thameslink as it is, the ELL as Thameslink East, and the WLL
as Thameslink West.

Thameslink for up/down, and Crossrail for left/right. (Er that might be
left/right ish - in the case of Chelney)...

Hang on, can't have left/right, it's got to be eastbound/westbound(1) as
avid followers of the periodic Picc, line does it go
east/west/north/south/in/out/in/out/shake it all about? debates can
testify..;-)

(1) If you work on the Picc, if you're one of those /cleese=on/ splitters
(hawk, gob) /cleese=off/ that make up the rest of the population then this
way & that way will probably do. Of course, with Chelney we've got the
delightful prospect of Nor,noreastbound & Sou,souwestbound/left & right/port
& starboard rows to look forward to. Perhaps to be started annually on Sept
19th. :-)
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change jealous to sad to reply.

On Aug 12, 8:26*am, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Andrew H

wrote:
Now that Oyster Pay as you Go is valid on National Rail (although it
may already have been valid on Thameslink? but was all a bit vague and
confusing), I used the Thameslink route for the first time this year,
and realised that once Blackfriars south bank entrance is open, it
will be a handy link straight to the south bank and the popular thames
walkway/London Eye/Tate Modern/Millennium Bridge etc. At off peak
times a more comfortable journey than using the Northern line from
Euston.

It will be a very long walk from Thameslink's Blackfriars southern
exit to the London Eye. *I doubt that even 1% of tourists would
consider it.

A long twenty minutes walk along the side of the river? The walk which
is sign posted for the further distance from the Tate Modern to the
London Eye.


As so often on uk.railway, posters only consider their own personal
situation and seem to lack any ability to give a moment's thought to
what most normal people would want, and do.

The vast majority of tourists would find staying in the thoroughly
seedy Kings Cross area quite repugnant. *If anything is going to put
them off returning to London, that's it. *

The situation may well improve over the next few years as the new
Kings Cross and St Pancras International is completed (the hotel is
still under construction) and the area is cleaned up. *But for the
time being, it is a particularly unpleasant place to be.

So for some years hence, the vast majority of people who come to
London will still find accommodation among the thousands of hotels
that are to be found to the west, and of which trainspotters seem
completely unaware. *Perhaps I should not be so surprised that
trainspotters are so out of touch with normal people - it's the nature
of the hobby, I suppose, and its close connection with autism.


Rather than pontificating on what other people will do or know, why do
you go and see exactly how seedy and repugnant the King's Cross area
really is these days? Especially the bits with the various hotels
mentioned are, the area has much improved and many tourists can be
found staying in the hotels around there. Of course, you are probably
forgetting that many of them are now arriving by Eurostar (or are you
going to tell me that all the Asian and American passengers are here
on business with their families) and won't want to be dragging their
luggage to the west.

In message , at 16:21:47
on Wed, 11 Aug 2010, remarked:
Where is Cambridge anyway?

It must be very near Kings Cross. ;-)

As little as 45 minutes, in fact.

The station might be (although it's more like 50 minutes at the times
most people travel). So add another 15-20 minutes to get anywhere else.
--
Roland Perry

On Aug 12, 8:26*am, Bruce wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Andrew H

wrote:
Now that Oyster Pay as you Go is valid on National Rail (although it
may already have been valid on Thameslink? but was all a bit vague and
confusing), I used the Thameslink route for the first time this year,
and realised that once Blackfriars south bank entrance is open, it
will be a handy link straight to the south bank and the popular thames
walkway/London Eye/Tate Modern/Millennium Bridge etc. At off peak
times a more comfortable journey than using the Northern line from
Euston.

It will be a very long walk from Thameslink's Blackfriars southern
exit to the London Eye. *I doubt that even 1% of tourists would
consider it.

As so often on uk.railway, posters only consider their own personal
situation and seem to lack any ability to give a moment's thought to
what most normal people would want, and do.

The vast majority of tourists would find staying in the thoroughly
seedy Kings Cross area quite repugnant. *If anything is going to put
them off returning to London, that's it. *

The situation may well improve over the next few years as the new
Kings Cross and St Pancras International is completed (the hotel is
still under construction) and the area is cleaned up. *But for the
time being, it is a particularly unpleasant place to be.

So for some years hence, the vast majority of people who come to
London will still find accommodation among the thousands of hotels
that are to be found to the west, and of which trainspotters seem
completely unaware. *Perhaps I should not be so surprised that
trainspotters are so out of touch with normal people - it's the nature
of the hobby, I suppose, and its close connection with autism.

Some might wonder if it's not you who's borderline autistic...

(Cue implosion.)

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 11/08/2010 13:14, Ivor The Engine wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 02:25:19 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

The reason that those areas are "the best bet for budget hotels" is
that there is comparatively little demand. The majority of tourists
stay in areas several miles west of Thameslink, none of which are
remotely as seedy as Kings Cross, whose seediness and relative
cheapness are directly connected.

If there is comparitively little demand, why are there more hotel
rooms within a 5 minute walk of King's Cross than in the whole of
Cambridge (not exactly an unpopular city with the tourists)? I
counted 4 large travelodges, 2 comfort inns, a premier inn, a novotel
and (from a quick google search) 25 non-chain hotels.

Extend that by another 5 minutes and you get all the small 'b&b' type
hotels around Tavistock Place and the Russell Square area. Hardly
quiet, especially at this time of year. I've not been inside them but
there are some nice looking places around Cartwright Gardens, a
generous stone's throw from Euston and St. Pancras. I generally stay
in that area when in London so I'm within walking distance of the
station.

Conclusion: The Poster Currently Known As Bruce doesn't know what
he's talking about, as usual.

Have you heard the latest news from the zoologists who are studying the
tioletry habits of bears?

Yes, and mostly, they don't **** in the woods:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardia.../features11.g2

tom

--
As Emiliano Zapata supposedly said, "Better to die on your feet than
live on your knees." And years after he died, Marlon Brando played him
in a movie. So just think, if you unionize, Marlon Brando might play
YOU in a movie. Even though he's dead. -- ChrisV82

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010, Neil Williams wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:26:19 -0700 (PDT), Neal
wrote:

I personally think it should be branded as part of and integrated into
the Crossrail system rather than 'Thameslink' so that we move to a
more Paris style - Metro / RER (Tube / Crossrail).

I suppose that fits with the branding, as Crossrail would then have a
network in the shape of a cross.

I understand they are also planning for the first three years to be
utterly plagued by breakdowns, misdesigns and overruns, so that their
passengers are in a perpetual state of low-level fury, hence fulfilling
the promise of their name in yet another way.

tom

--
As Emiliano Zapata supposedly said, "Better to die on your feet than
live on your knees." And years after he died, Marlon Brando played him
in a movie. So just think, if you unionize, Marlon Brando might play
YOU in a movie. Even though he's dead. -- ChrisV82

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010, Bruce wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:42:40 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:26:19 -0700 (PDT), Neal
wrote:

I personally think it should be branded as part of and integrated into
the Crossrail system rather than 'Thameslink' so that we move to a
more Paris style - Metro / RER (Tube / Crossrail).

I suppose that fits with the branding, as Crossrail would then have a
network in the shape of a cross.

Or, you could call Thameslink "First Capital Connect" and Crossrail
"Second Capital Connect".

The Chelsea-Hackney route would be "Third Capital Connect".

Or, if it ends up being built to tube gauge, First Lowercase Connect.

tom

--
As Emiliano Zapata supposedly said, "Better to die on your feet than
live on your knees." And years after he died, Marlon Brando played him
in a movie. So just think, if you unionize, Marlon Brando might play
YOU in a movie. Even though he's dead. -- ChrisV82

On 12 Aug, 09:26, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Andrew H

wrote:
Now that Oyster Pay as you Go is valid on National Rail (although it
may already have been valid on Thameslink? but was all a bit vague and
confusing), I used the Thameslink route for the first time this year,
and realised that once Blackfriars south bank entrance is open, it
will be a handy link straight to the south bank and the popular thames
walkway/London Eye/Tate Modern/Millennium Bridge etc. At off peak
times a more comfortable journey than using the Northern line from
Euston.

It will be a very long walk from Thameslink's Blackfriars southern
exit to the London Eye. *I doubt that even 1% of tourists would
consider it.

You're right. Walking along a famous river through the centre of a
world famous city so that you can look at the sights and be outside in
the fresh air is not something any tourist would do. The BVMT[1] will
all cram themselves onto the Underground with all the commuters and
business people instead. Because that lets you take down the train
numbers. Oh no, that's only something the BAATs[2] do.

As it happens, when I was last showing round some real tourists in
London, walking along the Thames to get from one tourist site to
another was something they explicitly asked to do, and rejected out of
hand my suggestion that it might be quicker to use public transport.
But then none of the tourists I have ever shown round is a BVMT, I
suppose.

As so often on uk.railway, posters only consider their own personal
situation and seem to lack any ability to give a moment's thought to
what most normal people would want, and do.

Right, so because the real tourists I have met (visiting friends and
family), who do not share the tastes of the BVMT don't count.
Presumably because you take me to be a BAAT, so that my real world
observations don't count. Nothing like an ad hominem arguement to
help prove your point.

The vast majority of tourists would find staying in the thoroughly
seedy Kings Cross area quite repugnant. *If anything is going to put
them off returning to London, that's it. *

The situation may well improve over the next few years as the new
Kings Cross and St Pancras International is completed (the hotel is
still under construction) and the area is cleaned up. *But for the
time being, it is a particularly unpleasant place to be.

Hang on, are you suggesting there might be a hotel in the area? But
in just the other post you explained to me that there was no demand
for hotels in the area, because the BVMT all stay in BTHW[3].

When exactly was the last time you visited King's Cross? Of course
you can't get there, can you, because it's impossible to get from
Waterloo to King's Cross. That's why any BVMT who might have used
Eurostar *all* use Heathrow now (they can't use Gawtwick, as we have
already "established" that no tourist could ever possibly want to use
Thameslink). The area is alreay much improved over its one time
status, and is now reasonably pleasant (especially the area to the
south of Euston Road where all the made-up hotels with fictitious
tourists staying in them are).

So for some years hence, the vast majority of people who come to
London will still find accommodation among the thousands of hotels
that are to be found to the west, and of which trainspotters seem
completely unaware. *Perhaps I should not be so surprised that
trainspotters are so out of touch with normal people - it's the nature
of the hobby, I suppose, and its close connection with autism.

Well the BVMT are welcome to use the BTHW, it leaves more room for the
real tourists in the real hotels. Please mind the BAAT.

[1] Bruce's Vast Majority of Tourists
[2] Bruce's Army of Autistic Trainspotters
[3] Bruce's Thousands of Hotels in the West

Robin

"Bruce" wrote in message

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:33:21 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:06 pm, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:45:20 +0100, Arthur Figgis
wrote:
If you are at King's Cross, the [well known UK city of] Cambridge
might be quicker to get to by train than parts of Greater London.

I've often made the point that, depending on where you're going to
exactly, a commute to London from Milton Keynes or even Rugby may be
quicker than one from somewhere within the Travelcard zones.

Just don't tell Michael Bell that - he seems to think you can get
from anywhere to anywhere in (Greater) London in less than an hour.


In Ringby, it will only take twenty/ten/five/two minutes.

And now he knows that 30 trains per hour is possible, no doubt this will
be the service frequency on the Ringby Circle Line.