On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:38:48 -0700 (PDT)
Paul wrote:
If you want to understand Comrade Crow's attitude to "safety", look at
the saga of the re-opening of the Airdrie to Bathgate line in
Scotland.

Oh Bob Crowes a dick and he just babbles nonsense 24/7. But there have been
times where my local ticket office has been closed and only one of the
ticket machines was working causing a large queue. Its bloody irritating
especially combined with the huge fair increase in january.

B2003

On 12 Aug, 15:56, David F wrote:
On 12 Aug, 12:16, Paul wrote:





On 12 Aug, 12:01, David F wrote:

On 12 Aug, 10:31, Mike Bristow wrote:

I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

I suspect he's more worried about the safety of his big, fat pay
packet to match his big, fat head.

Most people I know prefer travelling on the DLR rather than the tube
on the basis that there are fewer staff, and everything seems to run
smoother. People correlate these things together, because the machines
don't go on strike and stations don't needlessly close because there's
nobody working at them.

Every time I go through Bank station, there are two staff standing at
the top of a closed escalator / lift directing people to take another
route. Never mind the fact that a sign would do, why does it take two
people to do this? Customers of the tube can see overspend and wastage
every day.

Indeed. When I used to commute *from South Quay to Walthamstow via
Bank and Kings Cross, it used to p**s me off that at peak hours, one
of the passageways leading from the top of the DLR escalator to the
Northern Line was roped off. During the off peak hours this passageway
was open. One would have thought that at peak hours you would have
more passageways open to assist with congestion control. But since
when did LUL care about the invconvenience to passengers.

Tell me about it... I fly into London City on Sunday evenings on a
regular basis. DLR into Bank is nice and quick - they're even nice
enough to put a DLR departure board just inside the door of the
airport when you get off the plane. All nice and smooth until I get
off the DLR. I have to exit the DLR (with a case) climb a number of
steps, past the Northern Line exit (which is closed), over more steps
- up and down - then all the way down the Central line platforms, then
up an escalator, then walk a bit more before I finally get out of the
bloody station. Takes an age and no, I don't pass any staff making it
'safer' for me on the way.

Don't get me started on why I can't turn left out of the steps down to
the DLR on to the platform... why must I walk the length of the
platform, and then back up again if I want to get to the quieter end
of it? And why haven't they fixed the bloody escalator. It used to be
fairly easy to get to the DLR, now I have to walk through the Northern
Line platform when it's 'dangerously' busy. I'm sure as hell not
diverted there for safety.


Because it's far too dangerous to have people come down a staircase
and enter a platform directly, except at about a hundred other
stations in the central area.

I've said it befo Bank is weird.

On Aug 12, 12:01*pm, David F wrote:

On 12 Aug, 10:31, Mike Bristow wrote:

I suspect that Mr Crow is more worried about the safty of his members
than the safty of the public.

I suspect he's more worried about the safety of his big, fat pay
packet to match his big, fat head.

Most people I know prefer travelling on the DLR rather than the tube
on the basis that there are fewer staff, and everything seems to run
smoother. People correlate these things together, because the machines
don't go on strike and stations don't needlessly close because there's
nobody working at them.

Are you not perhaps jumping to something of a conclusion there in the
reason why people you know prefer travelling on the DLR? Is it not
just because it works (or is more likely to)?

I know people who like the DLR, but the reason given isn't that it has
fewer staff. Yes, the lack of need for drivers does make it less
susceptible to one type of industrial action, but the Train Captains/
PSAs can (and occasionally do) still threaten to strike.


Every time I go through Bank station, there are two staff standing at
the top of a closed escalator / lift directing people to take another
route. Never mind the fact that a sign would do, why does it take two
people to do this? Customers of the tube can see overspend and wastage
every day.

Subterranean stations are very different from a safety point-of-view
though - there's a whole host of safety requirements and associated
staffing requirements (and things are fairly strict these days post
the '87 KXSP fire).

I don't know of the specific logic in play at Bank station, but
perhaps these bods have some sort of crowd-control / in-case-of-fire(-
at-busy-times) function that's not immediately apparent.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:16:10 -0700 (PDT), Paul
wrote:
Indeed. When I used to commute from South Quay to Walthamstow via
Bank and Kings Cross, it used to p**s me off that at peak hours, one
of the passageways leading from the top of the DLR escalator to the
Northern Line was roped off. During the off peak hours this passageway
was open. One would have thought that at peak hours you would have
more passageways open to assist with congestion control. But since
when did LUL care about the invconvenience to passengers.

But the whole point of the exercise about reducing the opening hours
of ticket offices is that staff will be redeployed elsewhere within
the station. This will, if anything, increase station security. Does
Comrade Crow not understand this?


What Comrade Crow *does* appear to understand is that every change
that is either proposed or introduced by management, no matter how
small, presents a golden opportunity to maximise both (a) the number
of his members who are employed and (b) their remuneration. The
message is clear; if management changes anything at all, it's going to
cost them dear, one way or another.

Having dealt with similarly militant trade unions in the construction
industry, I have to say that Crow's tactics, while both obvious and
crude, are surprisingly effective. He has obviously watched how
similar tactics deployed by ASLEF over recent years have made London
Underground drivers' jobs both secure and extremely highly paid.

The issue of security is not so important, except that it provides an
excuse to demand more money and/or maximise staff numbers.

On 12 Aug, 16:20, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:17:02 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
If I was really stuck, I guess I'd pop to the cash machine above
ground - withdraw a tenner and feed that to the ticket machine. If I
had no cards on me, I guess I could try another ticket machine - or
maybe be more concerned that I had counterfit pound coins in my

Or a crumpled tenner or one that someone has scribbled on or ripped.

pocket. Worst case, I could make a short stroll down to the next
station where I am sure the machines would be working - or pick up
some change in a shop on the way. I could even get the bus.

Unlike the DLR most tube stations outside central london are not a "short
stroll" apart. The next station down the line from my station is a half hour
walk. I know because I've had to do it on a couple of occasions.

Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

B2003

On 17 Aug, 09:49, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

Well, it sends you an email every time it tops up - so if anything
untoward were to happen (it hasn't) I'd know about it.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 02:48:59 -0700 (PDT)
David F wrote:
On 17 Aug, 09:49, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:02:53 -0700 (PDT)

David F wrote:
Of course, I'd probably just use my Oyster card in the first place.

How do you top up your oyster card then, magic?

Auto top-up. Any sensible person has this set up.

No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

Well, it sends you an email every time it tops up - so if anything
untoward were to happen (it hasn't) I'd know about it.

Assuming the system didn't screw up so badly it didn't send you an email.
Anyway thats besides the point - getting money back when a direct debit has
fouled up is a PITA.

B2003

d gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Anyway thats besides the point - getting money back when a direct debit
has fouled up is a PITA.

Only if your bank is monumentally crap and breaching the DD Guarantee.

In message
, at
02:48:59 on Tue, 17 Aug 2010, David F remarked:
No sensible person uses direct debit unless they really have to. And no
I'm not going to argue the toss over that one.

Well, it sends you an email every time it tops up - so if anything
untoward were to happen (it hasn't) I'd know about it.

Mine doesn't. Perhaps I need to call the helpline and ask them to fix
that?
--
Roland Perry