Hi all

In the near future, I am intending to make a journey from Brockley to
East Croydon, to meet a friend coming from Gatwick Airport, and then
bringing him back to Brockley. How do I do this with Oyster?

Do I just exit at East Croydon, then immediately enter again? Will
this give me two separate journeys, or will I confuse it with an OOSI?
And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

On 25 Oct, 00:06, SamB wrote:
Hi all

In the near future, I am intending to make a journey from Brockley to
East Croydon, to meet a friend coming from Gatwick Airport, and then
bringing him back to Brockley. How do I do this with Oyster?

Do I just exit at East Croydon, then immediately enter again? Will
this give me two separate journeys, or will I confuse it with an OOSI?
And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

Would you mind not hurting our brains, and just meet them at Gatwick
instead?

"SamB" wrote:

Hi all

In the near future, I am intending to make a journey from Brockley to
East Croydon, to meet a friend coming from Gatwick Airport, and then
bringing him back to Brockley. How do I do this with Oyster?

Do I just exit at East Croydon, then immediately enter again? Will
this give me two separate journeys, or will I confuse it with an OOSI?

There's no OSI at East Croydon, so no possibility of that coming into play -
just exit at East Croydon and then re-enter.

(Also worth noting that OSIs don't generally apply when exiting and then
re-entering the same station/ gateline - e.g. if one were to exit Euston
tube, then re-enter, that would start a new journey - though I'm not sure
how things are configured at say Victoria, London Bridge, Liverpool Street
or other NR termini stations, where one could concievably exit, circulate
and then re-enter as part of an overall rail journey.)

And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

If one was to enter Brockley then exit it before the journey timed out, it'd
be charged as a Brockley to Brockley (z2 to z2) journey, though I think it
might understandably be regarded as somewhat irregular if one was to meet a
gripper who was doing a more through check.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

"SamB" wrote:

Hi all

In the near future, I am intending to make a journey from Brockley to
East Croydon, to meet a friend coming from Gatwick Airport, and then
bringing him back to Brockley. How do I do this with Oyster?

Do I just exit at East Croydon, then immediately enter again? Will
this give me two separate journeys, or will I confuse it with an OOSI?

There's no OSI at East Croydon, so no possibility of that coming into
play - just exit at East Croydon and then re-enter.

(Also worth noting that OSIs don't generally apply when exiting and then
re-entering the same station/ gateline - e.g. if one were to exit Euston
tube, then re-enter, that would start a new journey - though I'm not sure
how things are configured at say Victoria, London Bridge, Liverpool Street
or other NR termini stations, where one could concievably exit, circulate
and then re-enter as part of an overall rail journey.)

And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

If one was to enter Brockley then exit it before the journey timed out,
it'd be charged as a Brockley to Brockley (z2 to z2) journey,

why wouldn't in be two unresolved journeys?

tim

In message of Mon, 25 Oct 2010
11:11:05 in uk.transport.london, tim....
writes

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

"SamB" wrote:

Hi all

In the near future, I am intending to make a journey from Brockley to
East Croydon, to meet a friend coming from Gatwick Airport, and then
bringing him back to Brockley. How do I do this with Oyster?

Do I just exit at East Croydon, then immediately enter again? Will
this give me two separate journeys, or will I confuse it with an OOSI?

There's no OSI at East Croydon, so no possibility of that coming into
play - just exit at East Croydon and then re-enter.

(Also worth noting that OSIs don't generally apply when exiting and then
re-entering the same station/ gateline - e.g. if one were to exit Euston
tube, then re-enter, that would start a new journey - though I'm not sure
how things are configured at say Victoria, London Bridge, Liverpool Street
or other NR termini stations, where one could concievably exit, circulate
and then re-enter as part of an overall rail journey.)

And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

If one was to enter Brockley then exit it before the journey timed out,
it'd be charged as a Brockley to Brockley (z2 to z2) journey,

why wouldn't in be two unresolved journeys?

It would be two unresolved journeys, if Brockley conforms to the
charging pattern seen on London Underground. I used to be able to do
Moorgate to Moorgate within the time budget for a Zone 1 fare. That
stopped working about two years ago. I can still do Moorgate to
Liverpool Street in that budget. The relevant rows a
Mon-Fri 04:30-19:00 Mon-Fri from 19:00 & Sat Sunday
In Zone 1 or 2 90 100 110
In zones 1-2/2-3 90 100 110

There are two rows with the same times after some tweaking of times.
The following rule still applies except as given above:
Within 1 zone 70 80 85

The full story is at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14872.aspx

OSIs within a station apply at King's Cross St Pancras and between the
two Paddington stations. Available information on Paddington is very
sketchy. I think there is no OSI between Bank and Monument, but there
may be while the Central Line Ticket Office is exit only in the morning
peak. I know of no other stations where there is an OSI between LU
gatelines. It does not work at Liverpool Street, London Bridge or
Victoria.

I hit a new curiosity at Southwark last week. At the west end of the
station, there are 2 gatelines, back to back and a few metres apart.
Leaving that side of Southwark is counted as a Southwark exit and a
Waterloo East [National Rail] entry. I used the facilities on platforms
A/B and re-entered Southwark. Oyster got confused. My onward journey
from Southwark was correctly started, but charged as unstarted on
touching out.

Just for the fun of it, if I were the OP, I might try Now Cross Gate to
Brockley via East Croydon in less than 90 minutes.
The Journey Planner shows doing that via London Bridge in about an hour.

--
Walter Briscoe

And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

My understanding of how that situation works with same station entry and
exit may be completely wrong or out of date. I thought that if you touch in
and back out very quickly at the same station - something like up to two
minutes - you'll be charged the maximum cash fare (or whatever the correct
term is) but if you then made another entry at the same or another station
within a certain period of time another maximum fare would not be deducted.
So basically it would be assumed you had a genuine reason for coming back
through the gateline quickly (forgotten or dropped something, come in wrong
entrance or something) and were still going to make a journey.

I then thought that if there was a longer period between entry and exit
you'd be charged a single zone fare from that station. Not sure of the
period, something like up to half an hour. I'm not really sure what the
reasoning behind that one is.

Then I thought for even longer periods, which I would have thought would
include your hour long journey, you'd be considered to have make one journey
without an exit, and then another one without an entry and so be debited
another maximum fare in addition to the one on entry. Or if your station
has entry/exit validators instead of a gateline you would be considered to
have made one journey without an exit and were now starting another one.

On 25 Oct, 12:38, "Graham J" wrote:
And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

My understanding of how that situation works with same station entry and
exit may be completely wrong or out of date. *I thought that if you touch in
and back out very quickly *at the same station - something like up to two
minutes - you'll be charged the maximum cash fare (or whatever the correct
term is) but if you then made another entry at the same or another station
within a certain period of time another maximum fare would not be deducted.
So basically it would be assumed you had a genuine reason for coming back
through the gateline quickly (forgotten or dropped something, come in wrong
entrance or something) and were still going to make a journey.

I then thought that if there was a longer period between entry and exit
you'd be charged a single zone fare from that station. Not sure of the
period, something like up to half an hour. *I'm not really sure what the
reasoning behind that one is.

Then I thought for even longer periods, which I would have thought would
include your hour long journey, you'd be considered to have make one journey
without an exit, and then another one without an entry and so be debited
another maximum fare in addition to the one on entry. *Or if your station
has entry/exit validators instead of a gateline you would be considered to
have made one journey without an exit and were now starting another one.

Correct:

Entry then exit at the same station (using one or more gates locked to
either entry or exit):

- 0 to 2.5 minutes between touches: on exit, a "same station exit"
token is written to the card, the balance remains unaffected. So the
initial maximum entry fare is what has been paid at this point. If
the card is used to reenter any rail station within 45 minutes, the
first entry fare is refunded and a new journey is started.

- 2.5 minutes - 30 minutes: on exit, the balance is adjusted according
to the highest station zone, the "journey" is completed:
e.g.
Earls Court entry 7:00 on a Tuesday £6 deducted on entry
Earls Court exit 7:15 same day £4.70 given back on exit (Z2
charge applied)

- more than 30 minutes between entry and exit: another maximum fare
is deducted. If the balance is too low prior to the exit touch, a red
light and "seek assistance" message is presented. If the exit touch
is made at a bidrectional validator (manual side gate for example) in
this scenario, an entry is written to the card (or if the balance is
too low, the entry is rejected).

Entry then exit at the same station: ungated station:

- 0 to 2.5 minutes between touches. Subsequent touches within approx
2.5 minutes of the original entry being written to the card will
simply confirm the entry - the display will read "Enter" but no
balance displayed

- after 2.5 minutes, before 30 minutes. A subsequent touch on a
validator will complete the "journey", an exit written to the card,
and the balance adjusted using the highest station zone.

- after 30 minutes, the validator will write another entry to the card
and deduct another maximum fare. As before, if the balance is too
low, the entry will be rejected, the user sees a red light and "seek
assistance"

On 25 Oct, 07:56, "Mizter T" wrote:
"SamB" wrote:
Hi all

In the near future, I am intending to make a journey from Brockley to
East Croydon, to meet a friend coming from Gatwick Airport, and then
bringing him back to Brockley. How do I do this with Oyster?

Do I just exit at East Croydon, then immediately enter again? Will
this give me two separate journeys, or will I confuse it with an OOSI?

There's no OSI at East Croydon, so no possibility of that coming into play -
just exit at East Croydon and then re-enter.

(Also worth noting that OSIs don't generally apply when exiting and then
re-entering the same station/ gateline - e.g. if one were to exit Euston
tube, then re-enter, that would start a new journey - though I'm not sure
how things are configured at say Victoria, London Bridge, Liverpool Street
or other NR termini stations, where one could concievably exit, circulate
and then re-enter as part of an overall rail journey.)

And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

If one was to enter Brockley then exit it before the journey timed out, it'd
be charged as a Brockley to Brockley (z2 to z2) journey, though I think it
might understandably be regarded as somewhat irregular if one was to meet a
gripper who was doing a more through check.

Stations are usually not set to interchange with themselves.

However, prior to planned engineering works or during unplanned
disruption, stations can be set for emergency OSI. This means that
the interchange with all stations, including themselves. The idea is
that users can travel A to B EOSI, rail replacement bus (without
having to validate Oyster), then C-D. They are charged a single fare
from A-D (provided A-D does not exceed the max journey time). Also
allows people to exit and reenter different gatelines at the same Tube
station during escalator work etc without paying for two journeys.
Unfortunately, if you are making a return journey, the two legs are
linked when you reenter the EOSI station. When you out, same station
entry exit programming takes over. This is why some journeys are
overcharged. An automated refund system then runs and sends a refund
a station gateline a few days later.

On 25 Oct, 07:56, "Mizter T" wrote:
"SamB" wrote:
Hi all

In the near future, I am intending to make a journey from Brockley to
East Croydon, to meet a friend coming from Gatwick Airport, and then
bringing him back to Brockley. How do I do this with Oyster?

Do I just exit at East Croydon, then immediately enter again? Will
this give me two separate journeys, or will I confuse it with an OOSI?

There's no OSI at East Croydon, so no possibility of that coming into play -
just exit at East Croydon and then re-enter.

(Also worth noting that OSIs don't generally apply when exiting and then
re-entering the same station/ gateline - e.g. if one were to exit Euston
tube, then re-enter, that would start a new journey - though I'm not sure
how things are configured at say Victoria, London Bridge, Liverpool Street
or other NR termini stations, where one could concievably exit, circulate
and then re-enter as part of an overall rail journey.)

And what would happen if I touched in at Brockley, then did nothing
else before touching out at Brockley an hour later?

If one was to enter Brockley then exit it before the journey timed out, it'd
be charged as a Brockley to Brockley (z2 to z2) journey, though I think it
might understandably be regarded as somewhat irregular if one was to meet a
gripper who was doing a more through check.

Stations are usually not set to interchange with themselves.

However, prior to planned engineering works or during unplanned
disruption, stations can be set for emergency OSI.

This means that they interchange with all stations, including
themselves. The idea is
that users can travel A to B EOSI, rail replacement bus (without
having to validate Oyster), then C-D. They are charged a single fare
from A-D (provided A-D does not exceed the max journey time).

Also allows people to exit and reenter different gatelines at the same
Tube
station during escalator work etc without paying for two journeys.

Unfortunately, if you are making a return journey, the two legs are
linked when you reenter the EOSI station.

When you touch out, same station entry exit programming takes over
(see other post). This is why some journeys are
overcharged.

An automated refund system then runs and sends a refund to a station
gateline a few days later. Usually works out the most frequently used
station to determine which one to use. If the Oyster card is linked
to an online account when the refund is sent, you get an email
advising of "an operational issue". I have had one myself.

A good Oyster helpline advisor should be able to tell you all of this.

In message
, at
01:43:09 on Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Jack remarked:
This is why some journeys are overcharged. An automated refund system
then runs and sends a refund a station gateline a few days later.

Which assumes you are a regular user of the system. Some of us aren't.
--
Roland Perry