On 15/11/2010 21:32, Denis McMahon wrote:

I'll bet the NR / developers projections assume that retailers will pay
the same (or even more) per sq foot for "shiny new mezzanine" than they
currently pay for "dirty drafty concourse", when anyone with half a
brain can see that the reverse is more likely true because "shiny new
mezzanine" will have a greatly reduced turnover.

And property companies, retail chains etc etc would not be aware of this
aspect of their business? They have never heard of Victoria, St Pancras
or Liverpool Street stations?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 15/11/2010 17:40, Denis McMahon wrote:
On 15/11/10 15:19, Paul Scott wrote:

NR have announced their initial ideas about moving the concourse
catering/retail outlets at Waterloo up to first floor level, with
escalator connections etc, freeing up space for passenger circulation.

Ultimately this will be financed out of the pockets of travelling
passengers or taxpayers (or both), for I suspect little actual benefit
apart from the introduction of new bottlenecks between the concourse and
the mezzanine,

But fewer bottlenecks for people not wanting the mezzanine. People who
are, say, catching trains.

a longer journey through the station if you want to shop,

But shorter - or at least easier - journeys for those catching trains.
London isn't short of shops, it is short of terminal station capacity.

and less revenue for some of the outlets due to loss of passing trade
and impulse purchases, so prices will go up

No-one goes to a station shop expecting a bargain.

or outlets will cease
trading and fares will go up to cover the drop in revenue from letting
the outlets.

They will probably kill some kittens too.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Paul Scott wrote:
NR have announced their initial ideas about moving the concourse
catering/retail outlets at Waterloo up to first floor level, with
escalator connections etc, freeing up space for passenger circulation.

Not a million miles from the mezzanine 'catering floor' being
provided at the new KX western ticket hall really. Details he

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...egoryID-8.aspx


Presumably this is an interim solution - or have long-term plans to extend
the platforms across the existing concourse and relocate the concourse area
been abandoned?

In uk.railway solar penguin wrote:
OTOH that's probably not relevant. Tourists laden down with suitcases
and in a hurry to catch a plane, are less likely to go upstairs and
look around shops. Plenty of time for that in the departure lounge
later.

But a commuter who's just missed his one-an-hour train back home to
somewhere on the south coast might want to kill time in the shops
while waiting for the next one.

I wonder whether Waterloo's shopping fortunes have declined significantly
since the departure of Eurostar? The various clothing shops (Monsoon etc)
seem to fit more with the international traveller market than commuters
(though perhaps TM Lewin for the 'need a clean shirt for the office' market)

Yes, Victoria has Buckingham Palace. But Waterloo has the London Eye
(or whatever it's calling itself this week) as well as the Aquarium
and the IMAX. And it's probably more convenient for Big Ben and
Trafalgar Square too.

But do tourists lurk around railway stations for shopping purposes? Mosey
around stalls on the South Bank, perhaps. I can't see them popping upstairs
at Waterloo to buy a T-shirt depicting a Routemaster then taking a trip on
the London Eye.

St Pancras can get away with it as it's a shopping hub for residents of the
Railway Lands development around KX plus (to some extent) the area around
the station - Old St Pancras, Bloomsbury, etc. The housing around Waterloo
is (AFAICS) mostly social housing - not exactly prime targets for upmarket
shopping malls.

Theo

On Nov 15, 5:46*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 17:30:04 on
Mon, 15 Nov 2010, Paul Scott remarked:

There are other applications to use the lower parts for retail purposes
but those lower areas are BRB residuary's responsibility, rather than
Network Rail.

This has led to previous media articles suggesting that whole
international 'station' would be turned over to retail, which TTBOMK
has never been a possibility...

If you demolished the check-in gates and security area (I expect they've
been robbed of all their equipment by now) you'd have quite a big area,
and extending into the original departure lounge if you wanted to.
What's going on "upstairs wouldn't be relevant.

IIRC at least some of the security kit (scanners etc) went to
Ebbsfleet - I think the gates (or some thereof) may have done so too.

On Nov 15, 4:33*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
ps What happened to the lower level Eurostar mini-concourses, next to
the check-in and around the side where you emerged off a train? Are they
being used for extra retailing.

They all closed when Eurostar moved out - which, I've just realised,
was a little over three years ago now on 13 Nov '07, with them
transferring to the the 'new' St Pancras the next day.

On Nov 15, 11:52*pm, Theo Markettos theom
wrote:

In uk.railway solar penguin wrote:

OTOH that's probably not relevant. *Tourists laden down with suitcases
and in a hurry to catch a plane, are less likely to go upstairs and
look around shops. *Plenty of time for that in the departure lounge
later.

But a commuter who's just missed his one-an-hour train back home to
somewhere on the south coast might want to kill time in the shops
while waiting for the next one.

I wonder whether Waterloo's shopping fortunes have declined significantly
since the departure of Eurostar? *The various clothing shops (Monsoon etc)
seem to fit more with the international traveller market than commuters
(though perhaps TM Lewin for the 'need a clean shirt for the office' market)

Yes, Victoria has Buckingham Palace. *But Waterloo has the London Eye
(or whatever it's calling itself this week) as well as the Aquarium
and the IMAX. *And it's probably more convenient for Big Ben and
Trafalgar Square too.

But do tourists lurk around railway stations for shopping purposes? *Mosey
around stalls on the South Bank, perhaps. *I can't see them popping upstairs
at Waterloo to buy a T-shirt depicting a Routemaster then taking a trip on
the London Eye.

St Pancras can get away with it as it's a shopping hub for residents of the
Railway Lands development around KX plus (to some extent) the area around
the station - Old St Pancras, Bloomsbury, etc. *The housing around Waterloo
is (AFAICS) mostly social housing - not exactly prime targets for upmarket
shopping malls.

Plenty of wealthy enough folk around Waterloo - obviously those who
travel into Waterloo from 'Surrey stockbroker belt' etc, but also
those who work nearby - many media and other businesses in the area on
and around the South Bank, and indeed play nearby - multiple cultural
attractions such as the Old and Young Vic, the South Bank Centre, the
NT, the NFT, plus all the various upper end eateries e.g. Anchor &
Hope gastro pub on The Cut, Baltic just off it etc. Plus I can assure
you there are some rather affluent residents around there too.

" wrote:

Who, in a rush to get their cattletruck home, is going
to go up escalators into a "shopping experience" in
search of a cup of tea?

In quite a number of CBD stations globally, a lot of people do find
"shopping" for a variety of goods/service in a railway station on
their way to from/work to be a worthwhile thing to do.

Just because the value proposition doesn't appeal to you is no general
indication that others may not find it adequately valuable for them!

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia

In message , tim....
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the link. It does seem extraordinary, though, that over a
million pounds a year is being spent in maintaining the unused Eurostar
platforms and terminal at Waterloo.

I don't believe for one minute it's costing that to maintain.

The figure quoted in parliament earlier this month, obtained as the
result of a freedom of information request, was a cost to the tax payer
of more than four million pounds for keeping the platforms mothballed
for the last three years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11683932

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDe...36&SESSION=905

--
Paul Terry

In message
, at
12:40:39 on Mon, 15 Nov 2010, D7666 remarked:

but winding up BRBR does not imply the responsibility passes to NR

It's in the category: "some or all functions transferred to civil
service, local government, other quango, expert committee, charity or
private sector" without saying which applies to each individual Quango.
In the original leaked list it was in the "Retain (Technical)" category.
--
Roland Perry