In message , at 21:32:32 on Mon,
15 Nov 2010, Denis McMahon remarked:

I'll bet the NR / developers projections assume that retailers will pay
the same (or even more) per sq foot for "shiny new mezzanine" than they
currently pay for "dirty drafty concourse", when anyone with half a
brain can see that the reverse is more likely true because "shiny new
mezzanine" will have a greatly reduced turnover.

It seems a little unkind to assume they are as ignorant as that. It is
their day-job, after all.
--
Roland Perry

Bill Bolton wrote:
" wrote:
Who, in a rush to get their cattletruck home, is going
to go up escalators into a "shopping experience" in
search of a cup of tea?

In quite a number of CBD stations globally, a lot of people do find
"shopping" for a variety of goods/service in a railway station on
their way to from/work to be a worthwhile thing to do.

Just because the value proposition doesn't appeal to you is no general
indication that others may not find it adequately valuable for them!


What every retailer needs is footfall. There is nowhere better for
footfall than a large London terminal station, and Waterloo's footfall
is the highest of any station by far.

Attracting only a tiny proportion of the 88 million passengers a year
who use Waterloo will provide a huge opportunity for retailers. So
even if the vast majority turn their noses up and refuse to buy, there
will be more than enough business to justify this proposed
development.

The scheme looks good. It does not detract from the fine architecture
of the listed building and it will free up the concourse and allow
much easier circulation. No-one is being forced to shop there, and
the current shop units are very much in the way.

It appears to me to be a good thing for passengers, shoppers,
retailers and Network Rail. Win/win/win/win.

What's not to like?

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...

Presumably this is an interim solution - or have long-term plans to extend
the platforms across the existing concourse and relocate the concourse
area been abandoned?

Difficult to pin down what they intend now, isn't it.

I can find references to closing platforms 1 and 2 to allow 3 and 4 to be
lengthened, and taking over the international terminal with all existing
platform allocations being 'moved over by two' to compensate.

But I also found an annual NR report that reckons they can extend 1 and 2 to
ten car 'in situ', without any problems. However there are other platforms
in the middle of the station that also need lengthening eventually.

There are some references to the 'Waterloo Buffer Stop project' although
I've never found a description of it. (Anyone else got any idea?)

There is also the distinct possibility that extending any platforms over the
concourse is long abandoned, because it predates Eurostar's decision to
withdraw from the station completely. It first came to the fore in the days
of the SRA and long franchise extensions - so it might be history by now.

Paul S

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 04:28:38PM +0000, Paul Terry wrote:

Thanks for the link. It does seem extraordinary, though, that over a
million pounds a year is being spent in maintaining the unused Eurostar
platforms and terminal at Waterloo. I should have thought that bringing
them back into use would have been more of a priority.

It seems extraordinary to me that it would cost that much to clean up
pigeon **** a few times a year.

--
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

For every vengeance, there is an equal and opposite revengeance.
-- Cartoon Law X

In message , at 12:00:07 on
Tue, 16 Nov 2010, Bruce remarked:

It does not detract from the fine architecture
of the listed building and it will free up the concourse and allow
much easier circulation. No-one is being forced to shop there, and
the current shop units are very much in the way.

It appears to me to be a good thing for passengers, shoppers,
retailers and Network Rail. Win/win/win/win.

What's not to like?

Are there still some shops/kiosks as you go through the barriers, or
were those a casualty of the automatic barriering? And if so, will they
be kept. Those are the only ones I used to buy from, and I wouldn't be
very impressed with having to detour upstairs.
--
Roland Perry

On Nov 16, 4:54*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:00:07 on
Tue, 16 Nov 2010, Bruce remarked:

It does not detract from the fine architecture
of the listed building and it will free up the concourse and allow
much easier circulation. *No-one is being forced to shop there, and
the current shop units are very much in the way.

It appears to me to be a good thing for passengers, shoppers,
retailers and Network Rail. *Win/win/win/win.

What's not to like?

Are there still some shops/kiosks as you go through the barriers, or
were those a casualty of the automatic barriering? And if so, will they
be kept. Those are the only ones I used to buy from, and I wouldn't be
very impressed with having to detour upstairs.
--
Roland Perry

Roland, that's my point exaxctly. I usually want a quick snack or
bottle of water, en route to the train, and I will certainly not ne
detouring up escalators in search of this.

If they remove all the small refreshment kiosks that will be a severe
detriment to passengers who actually use the station as a station and
not as a shopping centre!

Marc.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

Are there still some shops/kiosks as you go through the barriers, or were
those a casualty of the automatic barriering?

Yes there are. Not quite so many, but most of the usual suspects are still
there.

Paul S

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:41:06 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Roland, that's my point exaxctly. I usually want a quick snack or
bottle of water, en route to the train, and I will certainly not ne
detouring up escalators in search of this.

If they remove all the small refreshment kiosks that will be a severe
detriment to passengers who actually use the station as a station and
not as a shopping centre!

IIRC, that hasn't happened at Liverpool Street. Last time I was there
I'm sure there were food kiosks on the lower level, and a Starbucks
outside the Bishopsgate entrance.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

Are there still some shops/kiosks as you go through the barriers, or were
those a casualty of the automatic barriering? And if so, will they be
kept. Those are the only ones I used to buy from, and I wouldn't be very
impressed with having to detour upstairs.

PS to earlier reply, the NR 'stations made easy' is relevant to this. IF
it is correct, there is only one food outlet in the _centre_ of the
concourse. So posters worried about the loss of catering en route to their
trains seem to be 'misremembering' the current situation...

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/statio.../WAT/plan.html

Paul

On Nov 16, 5:43*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote:

Are there still some shops/kiosks as you go through the barriers, or were
those a casualty of the automatic barriering?

Yes there are. Not quite so many, but most of the usual suspects are still
there.

I was at Waterloo station this evening, and took the opportunity to
count them - there are five food and drink kiosks in breaks in the
gateline array (i.e. in line with the barriers to the platforms) -
there are four breaks/spaces as one such space hosts two kiosks side-
by-side - this is all between platforms 6 and 11 (and indeed I've just
seen your other post re the NRE 'stations made easy' page which
appears accurate in this regard - not so sure it is w.r.t. the stuff
in the centre of the concourse though). Notably-ish there isn't a
'Sweet Express' (is that what they're called?) kiosk amongst them - I
recall there used to be one before the gating, though I'm I think
there's such an establishment elsewhere there.