In article ,
trainmanUK wrote:
I think they could have done much more with the money spent if they
targeted the spening in a more sensible way. For example they are
currently making Green Park accesible at a huge cost.

That's being paid for out of the Olypic/Paralypic budgets, because
it's the nearest station to a venue used in the Paralympics.

They could have got a lot more stations done if they spent it on the
Subsurface stations on the circle line. A scheme to link the main
line termini is surely long overdue. And why dont they do such
stations as Covent Garden which already has lifts so only need a small
lift for stairs down to the platforms.

It's a non-trivial problem to optimize, frankly. Euston Square is
less important to make accessible now that Kings X is accessible
because there are good bus links between the two (and busses are
accessible), for example; stations which are good interchanges are
important compared to stations which aren't; but there is no point
is /just/ making Zone 1 stations accessible, 'cos there aren't many
people living in Zone 1 compared to the suburbs.

I do not envy those who try and form sensible policy in this area.

--
Mike Bristow

Basil Jet wrote:

Exactly what dial-a-ride is like depends on the funding level. If less
money was spent on retrofitting lifts to old tube stations, more could
be spent on dial-a-ride.


You know damn well that any money saved on making the Tube accessible
would *not* be diverted to dial-a-ride.

In any case, there would still be a heavy demand for dial-a-ride even
if the Tube was made fully accessible.

Thankfully, the Disability Discrimination Act goes some way to
ensuring that people with a very strong anti-disabled mindset have
absolutely no say in how the money is spent.

On Nov 19, 3:38*pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Bruce
writes

Just try taking a small child on the Tube with a
pushchair. *Or more than one child. *It's a nightmare.

It would be far less of a problem if parents didn't keep their kids in
pushchairs for much longer than used to be the case - it encourages the
use of large buggies and sets the seeds of obesity in many children.

Back in the 50s, most kids were out of pushchairs and toddling on reins
by or soon after the age of 2. I don't know why reins are so rarely used
these days, as it is so much easier to pick up the toddler where
necessary (on escalators or while 'minding the gap') than trying to
manipulate some huge baby limousine on and off buses or the tube.
--
Paul Terry

Because you still need to have the pushchair in your other hand,
unless you throw it away on the misguided assumption that a two-year-
old's desire to get out of it at one moment means that they are
prepared to walk as many miles as you have to go.

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Bruce
writes

Just try taking a small child on the Tube with a
pushchair. Or more than one child. It's a nightmare.

It would be far less of a problem if parents didn't keep their kids in
pushchairs for much longer than used to be the case - it encourages
the use of large buggies and sets the seeds of obesity in many
children.

Back in the 50s, most kids were out of pushchairs and toddling on
reins by or soon after the age of 2. I don't know why reins are so
rarely used these days, as it is so much easier to pick up the toddler
where necessary (on escalators or while 'minding the gap') than trying
to manipulate some huge baby limousine on and off buses or the tube.

On the subject of pushchairs, there was a message on the whiteboard at
Highbury & Islington today saying that pushchairs are not allowed on the
Victoria Line unless folded. Is this official LU policy as I have not
seen this anywhere before?

Peter Smyth

"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
...

On the subject of pushchairs, there was a message on the whiteboard at
Highbury & Islington today saying that pushchairs are not allowed on the
Victoria Line unless folded. Is this official LU policy as I have not seen
this anywhere before?

It is in the LU conditions of carriage. Victoria and W&C are barred to
unfolded pushchairs at all times. Other lines vary by time of day.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...f-carriage.pdf

About page 52 or so. There are some indications elsewhere on the site that
this will change once the new stock has taken over...

Paul S

In message
, MIG
writes

Because you still need to have the pushchair in your other hand,
unless you throw it away on the misguided assumption that a two-year-
old's desire to get out of it at one moment means that they are
prepared to walk as many miles as you have to go.

My point was that pushchairs were not used once a child could toddle
reasonably well - I can't ever remember people dragging a pushchair
along just in case.

You don't walk miles with children that young, whether in a pushchair or
not. You sit them on your lap, or on a seat if one is available, when
using public transport. If necessary, you carry them over hazards, but
otherwise you encourage them to use their own muscles. If you don't cart
the pushchair around all the time, there is no other option for the
child.

--
Paul Terry

On Nov 19, 7:22*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 13:38:56 +0000, Bruce wrote:
George wrote:

Does anybody really think wheelchair users are ever going to be able
to use the tube? Val Shawcross and the like just can't grasp the fact
that many disabled people don't want to use public transport, it just
isn't a viable option for them and it never will be.

It obviously hasn't occurred to you that the main reason that disabled
people don't use public transport is that it is mostly inaccessible.

It is quite wrong to say many disabled people don't *want* to use
public transport. *They just don't want to use a system that offers
difficult and/or restricted access. *Hardly a surprise.

People like you seem to forget that the vast majority of disabled
people used to be able-bodied but have become incapacitated through
illness, accident or military service. *They aren't a different
species. *They are just like you and me, except for impaired mobility.

People like you seem to forget that accessibility issues also affect
parents with young children and people who are mobility impaired but
not in a wheelchair. *Just try taking a small child on the Tube with a
pushchair. *Or more than one child. *It's a nightmare.

You make it sound as though you would like public transport to be made
inaccessible to all but able-bodied people so you can be spared the
sight of freaks in wheelchairs, and small children. *;-)

Goodness me. Mr Polson vs Mr Manning - an undreamed of combination of
combatants. *Do have fun knocking seven bells out of each other. For
those of us who are very familiar with George's views from other places
then this will provide huge entertainment while you all decide whether
to support or deride his views.

I'll just pull up a comfy chair and grab a bag of popcorn and watch from
the sidelines * :-)

I wish the former would stop saying things I agree with. I find it
very uncomfortable.

"Bruce" wrote in message ...

George wrote:

On Nov 19, 11:02 am, MaxB wrote:
says Valerie Shawcross

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11792421

I think!

MaxB

Does anybody really think wheelchair users are ever going to be able
to use the tube? Val Shawcross and the like just can't grasp the fact
that many disabled people don't want to use public transport, it just
isn't a viable option for them and it never will be.


It obviously hasn't occurred to you that the main reason that disabled
people don't use public transport is that it is mostly inaccessible.

It is quite wrong to say many disabled people don't *want* to use
public transport. They just don't want to use a system that offers
difficult and/or restricted access. Hardly a surprise.

People like you seem to forget that the vast majority of disabled
people used to be able-bodied but have become incapacitated through
illness, accident or military service. They aren't a different
species. They are just like you and me, except for impaired mobility.

People like you seem to forget that accessibility issues also affect
parents with young children and people who are mobility impaired but
not in a wheelchair. Just try taking a small child on the Tube with a
pushchair. Or more than one child. It's a nightmare.

You make it sound as though you would like public transport to be made
inaccessible to all but able-bodied people so you can be spared the
sight of freaks in wheelchairs, and small children. ;-)
-----------------

I am always surprised that people equate disability = wheelchair. Disability
comes in many shapes and sizes, under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995
(I believe) I am disabled. But I don't need a wheelchair, a seeing or
hearing dog, a carer or anyone else to look after me. Just how many people
are we really talking about here i.e. those who actually can't walk, live
somewhere near a tube and actually want to use it. Not a huge number I
suspect. Public transport is by definition a mass transit system and,
equally, by definition, cannot be all things to all people.

MaxB

"MaxB" wrote:
I am always surprised that people equate disability = wheelchair. Disability
comes in many shapes and sizes, under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995
(I believe) I am disabled. But I don't need a wheelchair, a seeing or
hearing dog, a carer or anyone else to look after me.


The wheelchair symbol is used to define disability. Therein lies the
problem.


Just how many people
are we really talking about here i.e. those who actually can't walk, live
somewhere near a tube and actually want to use it. Not a huge number I
suspect.


If you include parents/carers of small children, who need
"accessibility" every bit as much as the wheelchair disabled, we're
into the millions.


Public transport is by definition a mass transit system and,
equally, by definition, cannot be all things to all people.


Are you suggesting that a "mass" transit system should only cater for
that proportion of the masses who are fit, mobile and childless?

In article ,
Bruce wrote:
If you include parents/carers of small children, who need
"accessibility" every bit as much as the wheelchair disabled, we're
into the millions.

Many elderly people find long flights of stairs arduous, too...

-roy