It seems to me that it should really be the job of the industry (via
either ATOC or Network Rail) to put out a single coordinated press
release with complete information, rather than individual TOCs
providing information piecemeal to the media.

* * -roy
BBC East were reporting that there were "Operational problems at
Watford Junction". Now if that isn't TOC speak, I don't know what
is. Perhaps all those who slag of the BBC would be happier if the
incident wasn't reported at all.

"Chris Tolley" (ukonline really) wrote:

MIG wrote:

The newsreaders just keep on dumbly reading it out every half hour.
You'd think that the London travel newsroom would have some vague
idea about transport in London.

Would you? Why? Do you think it is a requirement for people who mention
London in the things they read out to be Londoners?

Except that's not what MIG said. I don't think it's unreasonable that BBC
*London* should strive for accuracy when it comes to reporting London travel
news.

(MIG doesn't however state which outlet this was - i.e. whether it was BBC
London radio, or the local London inserts on BBC Breakfast television
programme - I never watch the latter so don't know how it's presented, but
the former are read out on air by members of BBC London's travel team who
are also involved in compiling the information - they also 'tweet' here
http://twitter.com/bbctravelalert - my impression is that they're fairly
on the ball, TBH.)


If you *know* the BBC is broadcasting something that is inaccurate, then
wouldn't it be constructive for you to contact them directly to correct
it? Complaining about it here won't achieve anything.

Not sure that merely saying that is going to quell those who post on usenet
to sound off about something though - that's a long and well established
tradition! Also, there's been the occasional suggestion that points made
here can sometimes permeate their way into transport organisations more
effectively than other methods, though I don't think the same really applies
to gripes about media reportage.

Plus, I don't think the inaccuracy that prompted MIG's post was really all
that heinous either!

"Ken Wheatley" wrote:

On 2010-11-23 09:37:39 +0000, George said:

On Nov 23, 8:06 am, MIG wrote:
On good form today with reports of South Eastern services suspended
between Shepherds Bush and Milton Keynes.
[snip]

Should of course be 'Southern services' suspended between The Bush and
MK, a signal problem in the Watford Junction area was apparently the
reason.

So, does anyone believe that the inaccuracy of the BBC report would have
misled a single traveller?

That was my immediate take on it - though I suppose it's possible that
someone might have thought 'well I'm ok, I'm catching a Southern train not a
Southeastern one' - or at least the lack of clarity might have created some
confusion in their mind. Must admit I didn't immediately spot the problem
when I read MIG's post.

"Graeme" wrote:

MIG wrote:

On good form today with reports of South Eastern services suspended
between Shepherds Bush and Milton Keynes.

Their willingness to repeat nonsense for bulletin after bulletin is
often less obviously workable out than that one, like the time that
they kept announcing that services on the "Lewisham line" were being
diverted, when they meant that services between Dartford and Lewisham
via Bexleyheath were being diverted via Sidcup (rather important for
punters to know that they were NOT going via Bexleyheath, but WERE
going via Lewisham).

They do this sort of thing over and over. The newsreaders just keep
on dumbly reading it out every half hour. You'd think that the London
travel newsroom would have some vague idea about transport in London.

Blame it on the idiots who put out the press releases.


Such things are not normally communicated by press release - certainly not
'live' travel updates. However one only needs to look at some of the
examples of future engineering works information on TOC posters and websites
and the NRE site to see what a mangled mess can be made of communicating
such information - and likewise, the NRE current disruptions page can read
rather cryptically too (same can apply to some extent to the 'live' info
coming from the TOCs).

Mizter T wrote:

"Chris Tolley" (ukonline really) wrote:

MIG wrote:

The newsreaders just keep on dumbly reading it out every half hour.
You'd think that the London travel newsroom would have some vague
idea about transport in London.

Would you? Why? Do you think it is a requirement for people who mention
London in the things they read out to be Londoners?

Except that's not what MIG said.

What isn't? I'm asking questions which are clearly about what MIG said.

I don't think it's unreasonable that BBC *London* should strive for
accuracy when it comes to reporting London travel news.

All right, same question to you then, but unpacked. The implication
behind your (and MIG's) comment seems to be that staff whose job it is
to *read* the news ("newsreaders" above) on Radio Xtown should have some
intrinsic knowledge about Xtown so that they can correct the news in
real time if it is not correct on their script. Why should this be so,m
and how should it be achieved?

Should newsreaders be employed on the basis of what they know, or the
quality of their vocal projection? My view is that presenters on radio
should be employed on the basis of their ability to speak so as not to
be misunderstood by listeners. Anything else (e.g. unscripted banter
e.g. Eddie Mair, interesting regional accents e.g. Ian MacMillan, or the
propensity to dissolve in fits of giggles e.g. Brian Johnston, are all
bonuses.)

(MIG doesn't however state which outlet this was - i.e. whether it was BBC
London radio, or the local London inserts on BBC Breakfast television
programme - I never watch the latter so don't know how it's presented, but
the former are read out on air by members of BBC London's travel team who
are also involved in compiling the information - they also 'tweet' here
http://twitter.com/bbctravelalert - my impression is that they're fairly
on the ball, TBH.)


If you *know* the BBC is broadcasting something that is inaccurate, then
wouldn't it be constructive for you to contact them directly to correct
it? Complaining about it here won't achieve anything.

Plus, I don't think the inaccuracy that prompted MIG's post was really all
that heinous either!

Me neither.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683717.html
(55032 (Class 121) at Gloucester Central, Jun 1985)

Graham Harrison wrote:

Otherwise how can you justify reporting that Cross Country can't run
between Basingstoke and Southampton on a weekend when the line
through Micheldever is blocked and say nothing about SWT?

Local radio reporting takes a local focus. A Yorkshire-based station
will only report about CC because only CC trains pass through their
area.

It is, of course, short-sighted - but if every local bulletin included
all possible ramifications, there wouldn't be any time to broadcast
anything non-news.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683782.html
(150 142 at Manchester Piccadilly, 7 Sep 2001)

"Chris Tolley" (ukonline really) wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

"Chris Tolley" (ukonline really) wrote:

MIG wrote:

The newsreaders just keep on dumbly reading it out every half hour.
You'd think that the London travel newsroom would have some vague
idea about transport in London.

Would you? Why? Do you think it is a requirement for people who mention
London in the things they read out to be Londoners?

Except that's not what MIG said.

What isn't? I'm asking questions which are clearly about what MIG said.

He didn't mention anything about Londoners, let alone any requirement to be
one.


I don't think it's unreasonable that BBC *London* should strive for
accuracy when it comes to reporting London travel news.

All right, same question to you then, but unpacked. The implication
behind your (and MIG's) comment seems to be that staff whose job it is
to *read* the news ("newsreaders" above) on Radio Xtown should have some
intrinsic knowledge about Xtown so that they can correct the news in
real time if it is not correct on their script. Why should this be so,m
and how should it be achieved?


Well, in relation to MIG's comments it'd be useful if he unpacked them too


Should newsreaders be employed on the basis of what they know, or the
quality of their vocal projection? My view is that presenters on radio
should be employed on the basis of their ability to speak so as not to
be misunderstood by listeners. Anything else (e.g. unscripted banter
e.g. Eddie Mair, interesting regional accents e.g. Ian MacMillan, or the
propensity to dissolve in fits of giggles e.g. Brian Johnston, are all
bonuses.)

(MIG doesn't however state which outlet this was - i.e. whether it was
BBC
London radio, or the local London inserts on BBC Breakfast television
programme - I never watch the latter so don't know how it's presented,
but
the former are read out on air by members of BBC London's travel team who
are also involved in compiling the information - they also 'tweet' here
http://twitter.com/bbctravelalert - my impression is that they're
fairly
on the ball, TBH.)


If you *know* the BBC is broadcasting something that is inaccurate, then
wouldn't it be constructive for you to contact them directly to correct
it? Complaining about it here won't achieve anything.

Plus, I don't think the inaccuracy that prompted MIG's post was really
all
that heinous either!

Me neither.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683717.html
(55032 (Class 121) at Gloucester Central, Jun 1985)

In message
"Mizter T" wrote:


"Graeme" wrote:

MIG wrote:

On good form today with reports of South Eastern services suspended
between Shepherds Bush and Milton Keynes.

Their willingness to repeat nonsense for bulletin after bulletin is
often less obviously workable out than that one, like the time that
they kept announcing that services on the "Lewisham line" were being
diverted, when they meant that services between Dartford and Lewisham
via Bexleyheath were being diverted via Sidcup (rather important for
punters to know that they were NOT going via Bexleyheath, but WERE
going via Lewisham).

They do this sort of thing over and over. The newsreaders just keep
on dumbly reading it out every half hour. You'd think that the London
travel newsroom would have some vague idea about transport in London.

Blame it on the idiots who put out the press releases.


Such things are not normally communicated by press release - certainly not
'live' travel updates.

I was using the term 'press release' in it's widest sense, ie information
released to the press/media.

However one only needs to look at some of the examples of future
engineering works information on TOC posters and websites and the NRE site
to see what a mangled mess can be made of communicating such information -
and likewise, the NRE current disruptions page can read rather cryptically
too (same can apply to some extent to the 'live' info coming from the
TOCs).


And that's what the broadcasters generally have to work from.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

"Chris Tolley" (ukonline really) wrote in message
.. .
Graham Harrison wrote:

Otherwise how can you justify reporting that Cross Country can't run
between Basingstoke and Southampton on a weekend when the line
through Micheldever is blocked and say nothing about SWT?

Local radio reporting takes a local focus. A Yorkshire-based station
will only report about CC because only CC trains pass through their
area.

It is, of course, short-sighted - but if every local bulletin included
all possible ramifications, there wouldn't be any time to broadcast
anything non-news.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683782.html
(150 142 at Manchester Piccadilly, 7 Sep 2001)

Yes, but this was on Radio Solent so both TOCs operate in "their" area.

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On good form today with reports of South Eastern services suspended
between Shepherds Bush and Milton Keynes.

Their willingness to repeat nonsense for bulletin after bulletin is
often less obviously workable out than that one, like the time that
they kept announcing that services on the "Lewisham line" were being
diverted, when they meant that services between Dartford and Lewisham
via Bexleyheath were being diverted via Sidcup (rather important for
punters to know that they were NOT going via Bexleyheath, but WERE
going via Lewisham).

They do this sort of thing over and over. The newsreaders just keep
on dumbly reading it out every half hour. You'd think that the London
travel newsroom would have some vague idea about transport in London.

There is another point that I think we may all be missing here. Radio
London is aimed at Londoners. But it's heard by a much wider range of
people, particularly the travel news because of RDS. Thus it needs to
ensure that any data it puts out be it about road or PT has to be
understandable to non-Londoners as well as Londoners. I lived in and
around London for many years before I moved to Somerset yet I have no idea
where "Charlie Browns Roundabout" that I heard referred to recently is.