On Dec 1, 12:12*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:23*am, George wrote:





On 30 Nov, 18:58, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:01:36 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
A lot of bus routes have been disrupted by the snow and whilst
Metrobus have provided a lot of info through their excellent website
there is nothing at all on the TfL website which I think is an utter
disgrace. An e mail will be winging its way to them from me, I might
get a reply by next summer!

But why let the truth get in the way of a rant George?

I looked at the TfL website buses real time list earlier today and there
were plenty of entries relating to the poor weather conditions in South
East London and Croydon. *Example routes I picked were 61, 477, 466,
404, 434, 450, 96, S1, S3, S4, R5, R8 and 358. They all had entries
explained where there was general disruption or in some cases more
specific info for the route * e.g. in Orpington the bus station area by
the railway station is inaccessible so alternative stop info was listed.

You can see every disruption on the network if you select the "show all
disruptions" link rather than entering route numbers individually.

It may not be like the Facebook and Twitter feeds that some operators
run but that would be an enormous task in London. *To say nothing was
provided is just not correct and I would expect the reply from TfL to
completely contradict what you state is the case.
--
Paul C

Oh dear Paul, it looks like you are the one trying not to let facts
get in the way of starting another squabble, and that sort of nonsense
belongs on the LT Group, not to be confused with the new (argument
free) LT Group!

I am doing no such thing. The facts are completely clear.

Yes I had heard *you* had started an alternative group under another
of your assumed names. I don't see how you can claim it is argument
free given it has been running for "five minutes". You will get debate
and disagreement or argument at some point so it's best not to gloat
unless, of course, you are moderating all posts so that there is no
disagreement whatsoever.

Where exactly do I find all this then? I looked on live travel news
but it wasn't there, and many others were also complaining about the
lack of info, perhaps you could let us all into the secret of where
TfL have hidden it as most people don't have time to search the entire
site? *Of course go to the Metrobus site and you can't miss it, a
photo of buses in the snow sort of gives it away, perhaps TfL will
cotton on one day?

You go to Live Travel News, the default page is for LUL and DLR and
Overground but there is a Tab with "Buses" on it. Click that and you
can select by route number or else there is another link for "all
disruptions".

I have not seen people say they cannot find the info - several people
have posted about their personal experience of the service and some of
those have said that they found the relevant part of the TfL website.

Just because you cannot navigate your way through a simple part of the
TfL website in no way removes the fact that the information is
available on the site. Your accusation was that there was *no*
information - I have simply stated that you are incorrect.

It's a winter wasteland here in the Beckenham area this morning,
abandoned vehicles (including buses) everywhere

Everywhere? *I doubt that somehow. *There may be some vehicles left on
some roads but they won't be *everywhere*.

--
Paul C
via Google- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Indeed, and if you open that use the Edit - Find menu option on
Internet Explorer to search for the string "adverse weather", you can
scroll directly to the disruptions that are caused by adverse weather,
as opposed to any other cause. Having said that, it might be an idea
if there was a link directly from the home page which showed all buses
disrupted due to bad weather, rather than having to hunt for it as
described above. Other bus companies, such as Lothian Buses in
Edinburgh, are doing this.

On Dec 1, 12:12*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:23*am, George wrote:



On 30 Nov, 18:58, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:01:36 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
A lot of bus routes have been disrupted by the snow and whilst
Metrobus have provided a lot of info through their excellent website
there is nothing at all on the TfL website which I think is an utter
disgrace. An e mail will be winging its way to them from me, I might
get a reply by next summer!

But why let the truth get in the way of a rant George?

I looked at the TfL website buses real time list earlier today and there
were plenty of entries relating to the poor weather conditions in South
East London and Croydon. *Example routes I picked were 61, 477, 466,
404, 434, 450, 96, S1, S3, S4, R5, R8 and 358. They all had entries
explained where there was general disruption or in some cases more
specific info for the route * e.g. in Orpington the bus station area by
the railway station is inaccessible so alternative stop info was listed.

You can see every disruption on the network if you select the "show all
disruptions" link rather than entering route numbers individually.

It may not be like the Facebook and Twitter feeds that some operators
run but that would be an enormous task in London. *To say nothing was
provided is just not correct and I would expect the reply from TfL to
completely contradict what you state is the case.
--
Paul C

Oh dear Paul, it looks like you are the one trying not to let facts
get in the way of starting another squabble, and that sort of nonsense
belongs on the LT Group, not to be confused with the new (argument
free) LT Group!

I am doing no such thing. The facts are completely clear.

Yes I had heard *you* had started an alternative group under another
of your assumed names. I don't see how you can claim it is argument
free given it has been running for "five minutes". You will get debate
and disagreement or argument at some point so it's best not to gloat
unless, of course, you are moderating all posts so that there is no
disagreement whatsoever.

Where exactly do I find all this then? I looked on live travel news
but it wasn't there, and many others were also complaining about the
lack of info, perhaps you could let us all into the secret of where
TfL have hidden it as most people don't have time to search the entire
site? *Of course go to the Metrobus site and you can't miss it, a
photo of buses in the snow sort of gives it away, perhaps TfL will
cotton on one day?

You go to Live Travel News, the default page is for LUL and DLR and
Overground but there is a Tab with "Buses" on it. Click that and you
can select by route number or else there is another link for "all
disruptions".

I have not seen people say they cannot find the info - several people
have posted about their personal experience of the service and some of
those have said that they found the relevant part of the TfL website.

Just because you cannot navigate your way through a simple part of the
TfL website in no way removes the fact that the information is
available on the site. Your accusation was that there was *no*
information - I have simply stated that you are incorrect.

It's a winter wasteland here in the Beckenham area this morning,
abandoned vehicles (including buses) everywhere

Everywhere? *I doubt that somehow. *There may be some vehicles left on
some roads but they won't be *everywhere*.

--
Paul C
via Google

The place where I looked was TFL website, then 'Winter weather
conditions', then buses tab, then entered route number in the box.
For route 60 it now says 'No service Coulsdon Red Lion to Old
Coulsdon, not serving Poplar Walk in Central Croydon', which seems to
be correct, but twice yesterday it was saying that route 60 either had
no disruptions, or it was not a valid route. Clearly, this was not
correct.

I didn't look at route 466 yesterday, but it's now saying 'No service
between Coulsdon Town Centre and Caterham-on-the-Hill due to adverse
weather conditions.' This could perhaps be slightly better worded,
since it doesn't normally serve Coulsdon Town Centre, but turns left
before it gets there; it's actually being diverted to the town centre,
serving a few extra stops on the way. At least the information that
it isn't serving Caterham-on-the-Hill is correct, so the information
for these two routes is now correct. I don't know about the situation
on other routes, so I can't check the information now being provided.

On Dec 1, 6:11*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 09:10:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
[big snip]
The place where I looked was TFL website, then 'Winter weather
conditions', *then buses tab, then entered route number in the box.
For route 60 it now says 'No service Coulsdon Red Lion to Old
Coulsdon, not serving Poplar Walk in Central Croydon', which seems to
be correct, but twice yesterday it was saying that route 60 either had
no disruptions, or it was not a valid route. *Clearly, *this was not
correct.
I didn't look at *route 466 yesterday, but it's now saying 'No service
between Coulsdon Town Centre and Caterham-on-the-Hill due to adverse
weather conditions.' *This could perhaps be slightly better worded,
since it doesn't normally serve Coulsdon Town Centre, but turns left
before it gets there; it's actually being diverted to the town centre,
serving a few extra stops on the way. *At least the information that
it isn't serving Caterham-on-the-Hill is correct, so the information
for these two routes is now correct. *I don't know about the situation
on other routes, so I can't check the information now being provided.

The point that started this thread was that there was *no* information
about TfL bus services. That is palpably incorrect - I found loads of it
in less than 5 minutes. *I know George of old from other Yahoo based
groups. He made the point and said he was going to complain to TfL. All
I am saying is that it would be a waste of time given that his
proposition is untrue and he has subsequently admitted he could not find
the right part of the website.

He will probably come along and change the basis of his argument - an
old tactic - to say that the website design is crap or somesuch. That is
a different argument as is your contention above about the accuracy of
the information that was provided. *I don't have a problem with agreeing
that some of the information could have been better phrased or perhaps
more timely or accurate. *However I don't know how busy Centrecomm and
the Travel Information Service has been nor do I know what genuine
problems the bus operators have faced. *If they'd all been sitting on
their backsides doing nothing other than drinking tea then criticism
might be due but I await some evidence rather than baseless wild
accusations before I get overly excited.

TfL is a long time target for George and he will take whatever
opportunity he can to lambast the organisation for being useless without
properly considering the issues that may genuinely account for a less
than ideal service. *He would, however, extend complete sympathy to
Metrobus because they're a private bus company and operate some
deregulated services outside of London. *Private and deregulated = good
and TfL and public service = bad in a certain person's book.

--
Paul C


I rather suspect many utl readers haven't taken long to get a handle
on George and his, er, perspective on things (wrong end of binoculars
springs to mind) - though the little bit of background is interesting
nonetheless.

Of course utl needed a 'snow thread' of some sort, and so it seems
that this is the vehicle for discussion on said topic. I get the
feeling that utl is a somewhat less busy place these days than in
times past, so I suppose we have to take what comes w.r.t. jumping off
points for about transportational happenings.

On 1 Dec, 12:12, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:23*am, George wrote:





On 30 Nov, 18:58, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 04:01:36 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
A lot of bus routes have been disrupted by the snow and whilst
Metrobus have provided a lot of info through their excellent website
there is nothing at all on the TfL website which I think is an utter
disgrace. An e mail will be winging its way to them from me, I might
get a reply by next summer!

But why let the truth get in the way of a rant George?

I looked at the TfL website buses real time list earlier today and there
were plenty of entries relating to the poor weather conditions in South
East London and Croydon. *Example routes I picked were 61, 477, 466,
404, 434, 450, 96, S1, S3, S4, R5, R8 and 358. They all had entries
explained where there was general disruption or in some cases more
specific info for the route * e.g. in Orpington the bus station area by
the railway station is inaccessible so alternative stop info was listed.

You can see every disruption on the network if you select the "show all
disruptions" link rather than entering route numbers individually.

It may not be like the Facebook and Twitter feeds that some operators
run but that would be an enormous task in London. *To say nothing was
provided is just not correct and I would expect the reply from TfL to
completely contradict what you state is the case.
--
Paul C

Oh dear Paul, it looks like you are the one trying not to let facts
get in the way of starting another squabble, and that sort of nonsense
belongs on the LT Group, not to be confused with the new (argument
free) LT Group!

I am doing no such thing. The facts are completely clear.

Yes I had heard *you* had started an alternative group under another
of your assumed names. I don't see how you can claim it is argument
free given it has been running for "five minutes". You will get debate
and disagreement or argument at some point so it's best not to gloat
unless, of course, you are moderating all posts so that there is no
disagreement whatsoever.

Where exactly do I find all this then? I looked on live travel news
but it wasn't there, and many others were also complaining about the
lack of info, perhaps you could let us all into the secret of where
TfL have hidden it as most people don't have time to search the entire
site? *Of course go to the Metrobus site and you can't miss it, a
photo of buses in the snow sort of gives it away, perhaps TfL will
cotton on one day?

You go to Live Travel News, the default page is for LUL and DLR and
Overground but there is a Tab with "Buses" on it. Click that and you
can select by route number or else there is another link for "all
disruptions".

I have not seen people say they cannot find the info - several people
have posted about their personal experience of the service and some of
those have said that they found the relevant part of the TfL website.

Just because you cannot navigate your way through a simple part of the
TfL website in no way removes the fact that the information is
available on the site. Your accusation was that there was *no*
information - I have simply stated that you are incorrect.

It's a winter wasteland here in the Beckenham area this morning,
abandoned vehicles (including buses) everywhere

Everywhere? *I doubt that somehow. *There may be some vehicles left on
some roads but they won't be *everywhere*.

--
Paul C
via Google- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have you never heard the phrase 'when in a hole stop digging' Paul?
Very apt for this weather. If you'd checked your facts before jumping
to conclusions you would know that it is Paul Morant who started the
new group, not me. He was banned from Mr Rivetts group and that is why
me and several others terminated our membership of said group, sorry
to spoil your latest rant with a few facts!

Do you ever listen to LBC Radio? Yesterday many callers were
complaining about TfL's lack of info, either they've got it all wrong
or you have, ho hum!!

On Dec 2, 6:33*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Thu, 2 Dec 2010 01:17:09 -0800 (PST), George
wrote:
Have you never heard the phrase 'when in a hole stop digging' Paul?

Yes - usually in connection with you George.

Very apt for this weather. If you'd checked your facts before jumping
to conclusions you would know that it is Paul Morant who started the
new group, not me. He was banned from Mr Rivetts group and that is why
me and several others terminated our membership of said group, sorry
to spoil your latest rant with a few facts!

Not what I understand to be the case - especially in relation to your
departure from the group.

Do you ever listen to LBC Radio? Yesterday many callers were
complaining about TfL's lack of info, either they've got it all wrong
or you have, ho hum!!

Oh look you've changed the subject. What a surprise! *Have you sent your
complaint in to TfL and have you admitted that you were unable to work
their website to find the information therein? *

What people say on the radio is of absolutely no relevance to your
complaint that started this thread. *I trust you will share both the
full content of your E Mail to TfL and also the reply that they send
you. I trust you have also advised them of your failure to find a simple
tab on what is a main page of the website.

I was out and about here and there today (Thursday) and was quite
impressed with what I saw, both in terms of buses running - given the
weather some seemingly unlikely routes were still in operation (albeit
with a few diversions) - and also in terms of roads having been
gritted - I expect the TLRN [1] roads to be so treated (and indeed
they were and are), but I got the impression that at least some
Boroughs were making the effort to ensure that other roads (even some
perhaps a little off the well beaten track) which are on bus routes
got gritted too.

Also good to see the ELL remained in operation, albeit limited to the
'core' route north of New Cross/ NX Gate (dunno whether they managed
to run much of a service south of NX Gate today - though I see
Southern were managing to run a half-hourly London Bridge to East
Croydon stopper, later in the day at least).

-----
[1] Transport for London Road Network - key roads which are the
responsibility of TfL - easily identifiable as they're all Red Routes.

In message
,
Mizter T writes

I expect the TLRN [1] roads to be so treated (and indeed
they were and are), but I got the impression that at least some
Boroughs were making the effort to ensure that other roads (even some
perhaps a little off the well beaten track) which are on bus routes
got gritted too.

Presumably this was as a result of the policy to prioritise clearing
access to bus garages and bus routes (amongst other things) that was
drawn-up by TfL and the London boroughs after snow problems last year.
If so, it's good to see it working.
--
Paul Terry

On 2 Dec, 18:33, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 2 Dec 2010 01:17:09 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
Have you never heard the phrase 'when in a hole stop digging' Paul?

Yes - usually in connection with you George.

Very apt for this weather. If you'd checked your facts before jumping
to conclusions you would know that it is Paul Morant who started the
new group, not me. He was banned from Mr Rivetts group and that is why
me and several others terminated our membership of said group, sorry
to spoil your latest rant with a few facts!

Not what I understand to be the case - especially in relation to your
departure from the group.

Do you ever listen to LBC Radio? Yesterday many callers were
complaining about TfL's lack of info, either they've got it all wrong
or you have, ho hum!!

Oh look you've changed the subject. What a surprise! *Have you sent your
complaint in to TfL and have you admitted that you were unable to work
their website to find the information therein? *

What people say on the radio is of absolutely no relevance to your
complaint that started this thread. *I trust you will share both the
full content of your E Mail to TfL and also the reply that they send
you. I trust you have also advised them of your failure to find a simple
tab on what is a main page of the website.
--
Paul C

To set the record straight once and for all Paul, Paul Morant (ie the
member for Coulsdon) was banned from the group for no apparent reason.
When I and several others asked Mr Rivett for an explanation he was
unable or unwilling to provide one so myself and others terminated our
membership of the group and joined Paul M's new group. If you've heard
anything different then you've been wrongly informed.

I haven't changed any subject this thread is about the weather and
TfL's failure to provide any proper information, thankfully Metrobus
were a bit more on the ball. All you've done is throw wild allegations
about like you've done elsewhere before and quite frankly it gets a
bit tiresome after a while.

On 3 Dec, 11:30, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 02:35:28 -0800 (PST), George

wrote:
To set the record straight once and for all Paul, Paul Morant (ie the
member for Coulsdon) was banned from the group for no apparent reason.
When I and several others asked Mr Rivett for an explanation he was
unable or unwilling to provide one so myself and others terminated our
membership of the group and joined Paul M's new group. If you've heard
anything different then you've been wrongly informed.

There quite clearly was a reason for the ban and I had that from the
horse's mouth so I am not wrongly informed.

I haven't changed any subject this thread is about the weather and
TfL's failure to provide any proper information, thankfully Metrobus
were a bit more on the ball. All you've done is throw wild allegations
about like you've done elsewhere before and quite frankly it gets a
bit tiresome after a while.

No George. The post you made was about the *non existence* of
information about the impact of the weather on TfL's bus services on the
TfL website. I have clearly explained to you where to find the
information. You have not acknowledged in any subsequent post whether
you have subsequently found the information and whether you think it is
accurate or not. You said you have E Mailed TfL to complain about
something that you admitted in this thread you could not find. Your
inability to find it does not mean that it was not on the website. You
have now changed the complaint above to say "failure to provide any
proper information" which is not the same as providing *no* information.

I have not thrown wild accusations anywhere. *Your inability or
unwillingness to recognise what people say to you in good faith is the
thing that is tiresome.
--
Paul C

There may well have been a reason for the ban but Mr Rivett wasn't
willing to explain it to me, Robert or several others that enquired.
What exactly did you hear from the horses mouth? And who is 'the
horse' in this particular case? I'm getting a tad confused.

Clearly nobody else on here is interested in this 'debate' so I see no
point in prolonging it, I'm sure it'll be of interest to one or two
members of another group, well I know one will be highly excited about
it, LOL!!