"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...

"Fossil" wrote in message
...
I was driving down Mile End around 12:30pm yesterday and saw a fuel cell
bus
pass in the opposite direction. On the front was H2O where the number
should
be and their was white smoke/vapour coming out of the top.

So when are these coming out?

I saw the Mercedes fuel-cell bus, reputed to cost £3million.

Of course, if production were to be rolled out I expect the unit cost
could
be greatly reduced., but there is a bit of chicken and egg, as
manufacturers
can only offer reasonable prices once they start recieving big orders, but
big orders will only come when they have reasonable prices.


Regards,

Fossil




Trolleybuses appear to be more effective than fuel cell buses. Any comments?

"David B" wrote in message
...



Trolleybuses appear to be more effective than fuel cell buses. Any
comments?



Fuel cell buses are still in the experimental stage, how can a worthwhile
comparison be made?

"David B" wrote in message ...
Trolleybuses appear to be more effective than fuel cell buses. Any comments?

Arn't trolleybuses trams designed by a commitee? They're not as flexible as a
bus (they have to stay near the wires) but they're not as efficient as a tram
and carry far less people. Plus from what I've read and been told , they have
a habit of dewiring which makes buggers things up a bit.

B2003

"David B" wrote in message
...



Trolleybuses appear to be more effective than fuel cell buses. Any
comments?



Except the infrastructure is very expensive, and it requires skilled driving
in order to remain under the wires, many trolleybuses would become
dislodged.

Of course, where there were tramlines already, they could use those, but
they were horrendously impractical.

Of course, where there were tramlines already, they could use those, but
they were horrendously impractical.

Of course, you'd have to modify the tramlines with the return wire as
well. (Trams only need one wire as they return the current through the
rails).
--
Spyke
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do
not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.

Spyke wrote in message ...

Of course, where there were tramlines already, they could use those, but
they were horrendously impractical.

Of course, you'd have to modify the tramlines with the return wire as
well. (Trams only need one wire as they return the current through the
rails).

Trollybus overhead infrastructure is a lot more complicated and
expensive than that for trams; it's not just a question of two wires
instead of one. This does not mean that there are no circumstances
where trolleybuses are the best answer, but it is a factor which has
to be considered.

On 19 Dec 2003 05:17:01 -0800, (Stephen
Furley) wrote:

Spyke wrote in message ...

Of course, where there were tramlines already, they could use those, but
they were horrendously impractical.

Of course, you'd have to modify the tramlines with the return wire as
well. (Trams only need one wire as they return the current through the
rails).

Trollybus overhead infrastructure is a lot more complicated and
expensive than that for trams; it's not just a question of two wires
instead of one. This does not mean that there are no circumstances
where trolleybuses are the best answer, but it is a factor which has
to be considered.

Historically this is true because of the multiplicity of routes that
used to operate in London and therefore overhead junctions were a
common sight. Junctions aside, there is substantially less wiring in
the sky for trolleybuses than is the case for tramway operation.

If there were a rebuild of a London trolleybus system of a similar
route mileage, complex overhead junction wiring would not necessarily
re-appear. Indeed for 'sensitive areas' their may be no overhead
wiring at all since two factors would come into play, on board APUs
[or battary operation] and the ability to automatically lower and
raise the booms.

For electric street transit ,where a routing does not use any former
heavy rail routes trolleybuses are the only sensible answer. That is
the right factor to be considered, no others.

In September 2003 the Landskrona Trolleybus system opened and here is
a picture taken of one of the vehicles:
http://www.aveuk.nildram.co.uk/trans.../P9270037a.JPG
You will notice the lack of complexity of the overhead wiring and
don't be foolled into thinking that if this was a tram there would
only be one wire. Cast your eyses upward in Croydon and you will see
what I mean.

David Bradley

Spyke wrote:


Of course, where there were tramlines already, they could use those, but
they were horrendously impractical.

Of course, you'd have to modify the tramlines with the return wire as
well. (Trams only need one wire as they return the current through the
rails).

AIUI in some places they chose the opposite solution - modified the
trolleybuses to return the current through the tram track. Did they ever
do this in London?

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:29:34 +0000, Spyke wrote:


Of course, where there were tramlines already, they could use those, but
they were horrendously impractical.

Of course, you'd have to modify the tramlines with the return wire as
well. (Trams only need one wire as they return the current through the
rails).

Only one wire? What's all the others for then? It's a bloody mess up
there for Croydon Tramlink.

At least when you have trolleybuses you ONLY have two!

Proof? Have a look at
http://www.trolleybus.net/fullsize/tramlink/1031.jpg

David Bradley

David Bradley wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:29:34 +0000, Spyke wrote:


Of course, where there were tramlines already, they could use
those, but they were horrendously impractical.

Of course, you'd have to modify the tramlines with the return wire as
well. (Trams only need one wire as they return the current through
the rails).

Only one wire? What's all the others for then? It's a bloody mess up
there for Croydon Tramlink.

At least when you have trolleybuses you ONLY have two!

Proof? Have a look at
http://www.trolleybus.net/fullsize/tramlink/1031.jpg

Only two? Er, have you seen this ...?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bruce.l...Vancouver7.JPG

:-)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)