"Roland Perry" wrote:

In message , at 11:48:39 on
Mon, 14 Feb 2011, remarked:

Why not head along the passage towards the Northern ticket hall,
then up the stairs to emerge in the old upstairs concourse (which
will eventually be outdoors). Is there a sign on platform 8, or is
it necessary to find the main departure board from there (which
will disappear soon as that's going to be outdoors as well).

It's at the bottom of those stairs that the screen is needed. Up the
stairs for platforms 0-8, straight ahead for platforms 9-11.

Looking ahead to the final configuration, those stairs are mainly an
entrance to the Underground, being outdoors and the natural feed from the
barriers along the southern face of the station. To get to any of the
platforms will require an awkward U-turn back towards the "dome". So it's
pretty clear they want you to exit via the northern ticket hall and thence
to the mainline platforms via the new bridge, or rather more directly to
the suburban platforms.

I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which there's
this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline platforms through
the gates to the new plaza, and then through the domed area via the bridge
to the platforms. You can't get to the ticket office, suburban platforms
or St Pancras without that detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people
taking a short cut to the mainline platforms.

It's all fine and wonderful if the ECML is a faux airline and KGX a faux
airline terminal, but commuter trains in the main shed are not going to be
a good fit.


I wonder if I'm the only person who hasn't already firmly settled on the
view that the new KX is going to be a complete disaster?!

In message , at 11:14:09 on
Tue, 15 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

It's all fine and wonderful if the ECML is a faux airline and KGX a
faux airline terminal, but commuter trains in the main shed are not
going to be a good fit.

I wonder if I'm the only person who hasn't already firmly settled on
the view that the new KX is going to be a complete disaster?!

It's all a bit curate's egg. While it's nice to revert to the original
shed, without extensions to the front, that has resulted in most
passenger arrivals being a very long way from anywhere useful (given
that the overbridge is one-way, departures only).

The northern ticket hall gives a very useful shorter route to the
northern line platforms, and is OK for the Piccadilly, but a disaster
for the Victoria. From the country end of platforms 0-7, to the Northern
ticket hall (or St Pancras), is a *very* long walk.

On the other hand, if you are departing, the new National Rail ticket
hall is close to the Northern/Piccadilly (and St Pancras), and a very
short distance to all platforms, 0-11.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:48:39

I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which there's
this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline platforms through
the gates to the new plaza, and then through the domed area via the bridge
to the platforms. You can't get to the ticket office, suburban platforms
or St Pancras without that detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people
taking a short cut to the mainline platforms.

Sorry Roland, but you seem to be rather fixed on the idea that the main
entrance flow will be via the footbridge, but all the evidence is that it is
scaled for only about 20% of the entrance flows, in terms of numbers of
barriers, and its access is from the catering floor through a relatively
small opening in the western offices.

The main entrance flow is clearly via the southern end of the new ticket
hall at ground level, which is why the large space is being created at the
buffer stop end of (current) platforms 5-8. It's also presumably why the
vast majority of the waiting area for passengers is on the ground floor -
that's where there's a large area of seating.

Paul S

In message , at 11:39:06 on
Tue, 15 Feb 2011, Paul Scott remarked:
I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which there's
this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline platforms through
the gates to the new plaza, and then through the domed area via the bridge
to the platforms. You can't get to the ticket office, suburban platforms
or St Pancras without that detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people
taking a short cut to the mainline platforms.

Sorry Roland, but you seem to be rather fixed on the idea that the main
entrance flow will be via the footbridge,

I'm prepared to relax that view; but one thing's for sure, you can't go
from the platforms to the west via the overbridge.

but all the evidence is that it is scaled for only about 20% of the
entrance flows, in terms of numbers of barriers, and its access is from
the catering floor through a relatively small opening in the western
offices.

The main entrance flow is clearly via the southern end of the new
ticket hall at ground level, which is why the large space is being
created at the buffer stop end of (current) platforms 5-8.

That's still got a substantial "clockwise" component, as you have to
first get into the new National Rail ticket hall before you can access
those departure barriers.

It's also presumably why the vast majority of the waiting area for
passengers is on the ground floor - that's where there's a large area
of seating.

That doesn't necessarily follow. The same (downstairs seating/waiting)
is true of the Eurostar departure lounge next door at St Pancras, where
the trains are accessed "upstairs" once they've announced which platform
it is.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
11:48:39 on Mon, 14 Feb 2011, remarked:

Why not head along the passage towards the Northern ticket hall,
then up the stairs to emerge in the old upstairs concourse (which
will eventually be outdoors). Is there a sign on platform 8, or is
it necessary to find the main departure board from there (which
will disappear soon as that's going to be outdoors as well).

It's at the bottom of those stairs that the screen is needed. Up the
stairs for platforms 0-8, straight ahead for platforms 9-11.

Looking ahead to the final configuration, those stairs are mainly
an entrance to the Underground, being outdoors and the natural feed
from the barriers along the southern face of the station. To get to
any of the platforms will require an awkward U-turn back towards
the "dome". So it's pretty clear they want you to exit via the
northern ticket hall and thence to the mainline platforms via the
new bridge, or rather more directly to the suburban platforms.

I think we are all perhaps underestimating the extent to which
there's this clockwise one-way system. South along the mainline
platforms through the gates to the new plaza, and then through the
domed area via the bridge to the platforms. You can't get to the
ticket office, suburban platforms or St Pancras without that
detour, and they seem quite keen to stop people taking a short cut
to the mainline platforms.

It's all fine and wonderful if the ECML is a faux airline and KGX a
faux airline terminal, but commuter trains in the main shed are not
going to be a good fit.

I have been told that it will be possible, despite this simple model, to
enter the platforms though the barriers and that they won't all be set to
exit after all. I am also assured that the flow will not require people
with bikes to use the footbridge!

But to use the barriers to enter low numbered platforms there will have to
be information screens beyond the individual ones at each platform end.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 07:19:38
on Tue, 15 Feb 2011, remarked:

I have been told that it will be possible, despite this simple model, to
enter the platforms though the barriers and that they won't all be set to
exit after all.

As I commented the other day - a couple at the east end are marked as
'entrance' on the plans.

I am also assured that the flow will not require people
with bikes to use the footbridge!

But to use the barriers to enter low numbered platforms there will have to
be information screens beyond the individual ones at each platform end.

Are there such screens at Waterloo, away from the central cluster?
Admittedly, the departure platforms there are more predictable.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
07:19:38 on Tue, 15 Feb 2011, remarked:

I have been told that it will be possible, despite this simple model,
to enter the platforms though the barriers and that they won't all be
set to exit after all.

As I commented the other day - a couple at the east end are marked
as 'entrance' on the plans.

I am also assured that the flow will not require people
with bikes to use the footbridge!

But to use the barriers to enter low numbered platforms there will have
to be information screens beyond the individual ones at each platform
end.

Are there such screens at Waterloo, away from the central cluster?
Admittedly, the departure platforms there are more predictable.

Waterloo has a rather different layout, with screens along much of the
barrier line. The original train shed wall rather gets in the way at the
Cross.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:
Other London termini stations have gates and 12 car trains too - thus far
sky hasn't fallen in.

I thought gating was normally only used for commuter services -- the
only place I've encountered gating on inter-city services is at Leeds
and that's pretty new, and the gateline there is huge. I guess the
new thinkibg is to put gates everywhere, but I don't have to like it.

I also don't like the fact that they've only gated half the main shed
and therefore put a great big locked gate in the middle splitting it
into two. It now means that if you're at the Eastern side of the
ticket hall and need to get to platforms 6-8 you need to fight your
way through the crowds in front of the main departure board.

-roy

What happens regarding Hull Trains and Grand Central where passengers
are able to buy tickets on board?

I'm sure there was something on the GC website saying they would
continue to allow you to buy tickets on the train and if wishing to do
so you should simply tell the gateline staff and they will let you
through. How well this will work in practice remains to be seen.

-roy

In article ,
(Roy Badami) wrote:

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:
Other London termini stations have gates and 12 car trains too - thus
far sky hasn't fallen in.

I thought gating was normally only used for commuter services -- the
only place I've encountered gating on inter-city services is at Leeds
and that's pretty new, and the gateline there is huge. I guess the
new thinkibg is to put gates everywhere, but I don't have to like it.

I also don't like the fact that they've only gated half the main shed
and therefore put a great big locked gate in the middle splitting it
into two. It now means that if you're at the Eastern side of the
ticket hall and need to get to platforms 6-8 you need to fight your
way through the crowds in front of the main departure board.

And vice-versa when FCC decides to switch units between platforms 9 and 0
as it seems to do regularly these days. The 15:06 was announced for 0
today and then unannounced. It had clearly gone to 8 ("front four coaches
only") but still no platform announced when at 15:13 they announced the
15:15 as on 0. It left late. Being half-term the concourse was heaving too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel