wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:11:25 -0000
"Mizter T" wrote:
When you've got signalling equipment dating back to the 1920's operating
on
the SSL, plugging in new kit to interface with that isn't likely to be a

There was old equipment on the northern and piccadilly too but they
managed
to get them working on there so where theres a will...

As I said I'm not expert, but my understanding is that the signalling
equipment was/is newer on those lines than on the SSL.

Where there's a will *and a budget* there's a way - generally it's difficult
to do such things without any funding.

On Feb 16, 3:20*am, wrote:
When you've got signalling equipment dating back to the 1920's operating on
the SSL, plugging in new kit to interface with that isn't likely to be a

There was old equipment on the northern and piccadilly too but they managed
to get them working on there so where theres a will...

The point is, the Northern and the Piccadilly weren't scheduled for
major signalling upgrades until long after the SSL upgrade was
supposed to take place.

Two scenarios:
a) you buy a dilapidated house, move in, then start applying for
planning permission, organising builders, etc, to have it knocked down
and completely rebuilt. You're planning to start building work in six
months or so, and get the new house done within 18 months.

b) you buy a dilapidated house, move in, and although you'd like to
have it knocked down and rebuilt at some point, you won't be able to
afford to do so for at least five years.

In case a, you're probably not going to install a new kitchen or
bathroom, have the house rewired, or do anything other than basic
repairs that make it just about habitable. In case b, you'll probably
make some changes, because although they're temporary and you don't
want to spend too much on them, they'll make the next five years much
more bearable.

Of course, if you're aiming for scenario A, but your builder goes
bankrupt and you end up spending several years suing each other, then
you'll probably regret not installing the new shower and cooker that
you'd have put in if you knew you were going to be stuck there for
years. But that's the benefit, and the problem, of hindsight...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:09:43 -0800 (PST)
john b wrote:
On Feb 16, 3:20=A0am, wrote:
When you've got signalling equipment dating back to the 1920's operating=
on
the SSL, plugging in new kit to interface with that isn't likely to be a

There was old equipment on the northern and piccadilly too but they manag=
ed
to get them working on there so where theres a will...

The point is, the Northern and the Piccadilly weren't scheduled for
major signalling upgrades until long after the SSL upgrade was
supposed to take place.

Yes, but the northern line had electronic train indicators installed almost
25 years ago! Any signalling upgrdes to SSL weren't even a twinkle in
someones eye then so theres no reason not to have done them too.

B2003

wrote:

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:09:43 -0800 (PST)
john b wrote:

On Feb 16, 3:20am, wrote:

There was old equipment on the northern and piccadilly too but they
managed to get them working on there so where theres a will...

The point is, the Northern and the Piccadilly weren't scheduled for
major signalling upgrades until long after the SSL upgrade was
supposed to take place.

Yes, but the northern line had electronic train indicators installed
almost
25 years ago! Any signalling upgrdes to SSL weren't even a twinkle in
someones eye then so theres no reason not to have done them too.


I would respectfully suggest that you simply don't appreciate how antiquated
some of the signalling is on the SSL network. I'm not sure this discussion
is really going to move beyond that point though.

In message , Mizter T
writes
I would respectfully suggest that you simply don't appreciate how
antiquated some of the signalling is on the SSL network. I'm not sure
this discussion is really going to move beyond that point though.
Paradigm please.
--
Clive

"Clive" wrote:

In message ,
Mizter T writes:

I would respectfully suggest that you simply don't appreciate how
antiquated some of the signalling is on the SSL network. I'm not sure
this discussion is really going to move beyond that point though.
Paradigm please.


I was wrong - it's successfully moved on to linguistics!

On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:53:13 -0000
"Mizter T" wrote:
Yes, but the northern line had electronic train indicators installed
almost
25 years ago! Any signalling upgrdes to SSL weren't even a twinkle in
someones eye then so theres no reason not to have done them too.


I would respectfully suggest that you simply don't appreciate how antiquated
some of the signalling is on the SSL network. I'm not sure this discussion
is really going to move beyond that point though.

So you're suggesting theres no sort of timetable machine of any vintage
controlling the signalling on the H&C? Its all just reactive signalling -
train goes past , signal goes red, end of?

B2003

d wrote on 17 February 2011 16:47:03 ...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:53:13 -0000
"Mizter wrote:
Yes, but the northern line had electronic train indicators installed
almost
25 years ago! Any signalling upgrdes to SSL weren't even a twinkle in
someones eye then so theres no reason not to have done them too.


I would respectfully suggest that you simply don't appreciate how antiquated
some of the signalling is on the SSL network. I'm not sure this discussion
is really going to move beyond that point though.

So you're suggesting theres no sort of timetable machine of any vintage
controlling the signalling on the H&C? Its all just reactive signalling -
train goes past , signal goes red, end of?

The service provided does rather suggest that it's done that way. I note
that the Live Departure Boards on the TfL site don't include any
stations between Paddington H&C and Hammersmith H&C, and the
descriptions of train locations on the Hammersmith LDP sometimes look
rather odd (e.g. one train "between Latimer Road and Wood Lane",
followed by one "between Ladbroke Grove and Goldhawk Road", which I saw
the other day).
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Feb 17, 4:47*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:53:13 -0000

"Mizter T" wrote:
Yes, but the northern line had electronic train indicators installed
almost
25 years ago! Any signalling upgrdes to SSL weren't even a twinkle in
someones eye then so theres no reason not to have done them too.

I would respectfully suggest that you simply don't appreciate how antiquated
some of the signalling is on the SSL network. I'm not sure this discussion
is really going to move beyond that point though.

So you're suggesting theres no sort of timetable machine of any vintage
controlling the signalling on the H&C? Its all just reactive signalling -
train goes past , signal goes red, end of?

B2003

Paddington to Goldhawk road is just as you describe - automatic.

There is no transmission of Train Desciptions (Destinations) at all on
the Hammersmith branch, nor is there a diagram of the area mentioned
above. Edgware Road (do get TDs from Baker Street and Earl's Court)
and Hammersmith signal cabins simply route the trains according to
timetable order unless advised otherwise.
The latter is true for another Z1 area of the SSR.
Elsewhere on the Piccadilly line for instance, trains do have TDs, so
the Dot Matrix piggybacks off of this. It is not unknown though for
one system to be correct and the other not!

What does happen on the Hammersmith branch is that the Group Security
Control Room at Ladbroke Grove monitors where the trains are in
central London and the Branch and make announcements accordingly.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 03:02:56 -0800 (PST)
dave wrote:
There is no transmission of Train Desciptions (Destinations) at all on
the Hammersmith branch, nor is there a diagram of the area mentioned
above. Edgware Road (do get TDs from Baker Street and Earl's Court)
and Hammersmith signal cabins simply route the trains according to
timetable order unless advised otherwise.

Fair enough. Perhaps LU should just use a completely seperate method of
running the next train indicators , perhaps using radio tags on the trains
braodcasting the trains position to trackside receivers which update the
next stations board. After all, if they can get it to work in the far more
complicated scenario of buses it shouldn't be too hard with trains.

B2003