On Thu, 24 Feb 2011, Roy Badami wrote:

In article . li,
Tom Anderson wrote:

Not so! It is permitted, although it depends on the ticket.

I remain to be convinced. The Routeing Guide gives the routeing
permission as WA, and that map doesn't allow the WAML.

AFAIK, there are three FP - Cambridge fares

Avantix Traveller only shows fares for two routes (exluding staff
tickets): Route Any Permitted and Route Not London.

I don't have any physical evidence to hand, but next time i do this trip,
i'll keep the ticket, interrogate any TIs i meet, and post the details.

There is an easement that allows doubling back at Kings Cross, so you
can go from FPK to KGX to pick up the fast train,

Ah, i didn't know that. Can you double back by tube?

tom

--
If it ain't Alberta, it ain't beef.

"peter" wrote in message
...
And the fact that I can't make head or tail of any of this just shows
how absurdly complicated rail fares are!

That's because thw test case IS complicated and the rule works to the
advantage of the passenger.

If the rule was "split tickets can only be used for a journey if the train
stops at the point of the split", the rule would be simple. And lots of
people would be disadvantaged.

tim

On 25/02/2011 08:49, peter wrote:
And the fact that I can't make head or tail of any of this just shows
how absurdly complicated rail fares are!

In which case don't try to use these benefits of the rules, just treat
everything as if it were a A-B direct route only - or even exact train
only, if you want really simple...

It will be worse for you, of course, but people who do figure it out can
continue to benefit.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

john b wrote:

The FCC ticket office at Finsbury Park is a *long* way off the ball -
when I lived in FP I frequently had to go to KX to buy complicated
(but legit) tickets that should have been issue-able at FP, because
the FP FCC (WAGN at the time, I think, but same guys, different suits)
lot simply didn't have a clue.


I had similar issues buying tickets to/from a zone boundary on this
route some years ago, when WAGN were the operator. At the time I had
a zone 1,2,3 gold card, but periodically travelled up the GN line.
Sometimes I bought returns or single from Finsbury Park, sometimes
from a WAGN station further up, but my journey was always to or
from Finsbury Park.

Finsbury Park always sold me a different ticket from the others,
one being a boundary zone ticket and one a ticket naming a specific
station. The prices were slightly different as well, although the
balance shifted from year to year.

In article . li,
Tom Anderson wrote:
There is an easement that allows doubling back at Kings Cross, so you
can go from FPK to KGX to pick up the fast train,

Ah, i didn't know that. Can you double back by tube?

Tube and rail are interavailable between FPK and KGX IIRC, so I would
imagine in principle yes, but whether the LUL gatelines and/or staff
know agree is another matter.

(N.B. The doubling back rule is for journey from FPK to specific
destinations - I'm not suggeting there's a general overarching
permission to double back at KGX)

-roy

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:
Just curious which bit of KGX - the East Coast or the FCC ticket
office?

East Coast, I think. The big travel centre on the left of the main
concourse (as you enter from Euston Road). I didn't realise there was
more than one.

Another way of explaining it might just be that the Finsbury Park lot
aren't that on the ball I s'pose.

Yeah, I did wonder whether their TIS required some arcane procedure to
issue BZ tickets so the staff just issued from FPK as a workaround.

-roy

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
It's the other way round. You can't sensibly change *to* EC at Stevenage
because the next stop will be Peterborough which is outside the
permitted travel envelope for getting to Cambridge.

*but* a FPK to Cambridge ticket has an easement such that it's valid via
KGX. So it's possible that you might travel Finsbury Park to Kings Cross
(on FCC) then up to Stevenage on EC, then change to FCC to complete the
journey. But it's a barmy exercise.

Yeah, I realised after I posted that that made no sense.

What I was thinking of is KGX to CBG or vice versa where they journey
planner used to occasionally throw up a change-at-SVG journey with the
KGX-SVG portion on EC.

-roy

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:

The ticket will always be valid on a direct train (one which calls at
both the start and finishing stations)

....unless there's a negative easement that says it's not.

I didn't realise that exceptions to the through train rule were
possible, but there is apparently a (fairly new) such easement for
some loop line (I'm sure others can fill in the details) to prevent
you from going the long way round the loop even though it's a direct
train.

-roy

In article ,
tim.... wrote:
If the rule was "split tickets can only be used for a journey if the train
stops at the point of the split", the rule would be simple. And lots of
people would be disadvantaged.

But generally split tickets *can* oly be used for a journey if the
train stops at the point of the split.

The exceptions are where both tickets are zonal tickets, and where one
ticket is a season ticket and the other is not. If you want to dig
deeper, have a look at the National Rail Conditions of Carriage
(taking care to look up the definitions of terms such as zonal ticket
and season ticket).

-roy

In article ,
I wrote:
I didn't realise that exceptions to the through train rule were
possible, but there is apparently a (fairly new) such easement for
some loop line

"some loop line in Scotland" I meant to say.

-roy