In message
,
Mizter T writes
I think it's simply the journalist getting in a muddle and jumping to
erroneous conclusions. I don't believe there's any 'long distance'
sensing or reading of Oyster cards going on whatsoever.

I jolly well hope not - I often pass near an Oyster reader when I don't
want it to be read, because I am using a paper ticket. For reassurance:
RFID reading is a classic case where an inverse fourth-power law applies
(because there's roughly an inverse square law for the transmission of
power from the reader to the card, then ditto for the information from
the card to the reader; this isn't perfectly accurate because of
near-field effects, but a fair approximation). I find that an Oyster
card needs to be within a few cm of the reader, so I doubt if it is
feasible to read them at distance of over say 10 cm without a massive
increase in the power levels, which would be a danger e.g. to those with
heart pacemakers.

--
Clive Page

Paul Corfield wrote

Incidentally, I noticed that Wimbledon is one of the stations with a

high record of "overcharging". I bet that's large numbers of people
still not understanding the peculiar Oyster arrangements there.

Having looked at the list I am still bemused as to why there are the
problems that there are. I would be surprised if the tube / rail to
tramlink arrangements were the sole cause of problems at Wimbledon.
The
last time I was there (a fair while ago) there was signage explaining
what to do for tramlink journeys.

Note that "high record" just means large numbers. If you divide by the
station footfall or the numbers interchanging there I expect the
numbers would be a lot more even.


--
Mike D

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message
, Mizter
T writes

I'm really not too convinced the journalist has got this right

It's Tom Edwards, so what do you expect!

After considerable criticism on his blog from others (including TfL) about
his article, especially about open barriers being able to mystically read
Oysters at a distance, he's clarified a few points, and says of
"autocomplete":

This is used when there are large crowds and you are specifically told not
to touch out and the system will do it automatically. They use it about 15
times a weekend - the issue is you eventually have to touch in at that
station within 3 days. (That all came from tfl's Head of ticketing so I
assume it is correct)"

I guess that makes sense in that most people going to the event will
return the same way, and thus touch in a few hours later, thus resolving
the incomplete journey on arrival, although it doesn't cater for those who
choose to return via a different mode of transport.

Incidentally, I noticed that Wimbledon is one of the stations with a high
record of "overcharging". I bet that's large numbers of people still not
understanding the peculiar Oyster arrangements there.

ISTM that there is absolutely no problem of understanding at all here.

If tfl don't tell the punters what the rule is (and it seems that they
haven't) what is there not to understand?

The problem is entirely one of (non) communication on Tfl's part. And as
they are the ones who are "profiting" by this non communication I would
suggest that's pretty close to criminal negligence.

tim

"tim...." wrote in message
...

If tfl don't tell the punters what the rule is (and it seems that they
haven't) what is there not to understand?

The problem is entirely one of (non) communication on Tfl's part. And as
they are the ones who are "profiting" by this non communication I would
suggest that's pretty close to criminal negligence.

If you go back a few years you definitely got the impression [rightly or
wrongly] from the Oyster booklet that the concept of a 'max cash fare' was
specific to certain National Rail journeys - indeed it was only in the NR
section of the booklet that it was given a monetary value.

IIRC there was a time when no max cash fare was taken on tube journeys - and
there must be huge numbers of people who've never re-read the rules since
then.

Maybe in hindsight the literature should have used the words 'deposit' and
'refund' in the normal way...

Paul S

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 13:11:31 +0000,
Roland Perry wrote:

So what *is* the action they refer to as "picking up cards going through
the barrier"?

probably that if you've got an incomplete journey and you enter at a
station that has been marked "autocomplete" then you get your incomplete
journey autocompleted by assuming you exited at that station to complete
the journey.

It will work fine for the 90% of people who are going to an event and
return via the same station.

Many of the rest will also probably be fine but I suspect there will be
a significant number of people who accidentally discover themselves in a
crowd for an event and deliberately plan to avoid the "autocomplete"
station for the return trip (or who aren't making a return trip at all)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/

Hmm, it doesn't surprise me!

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:08:12PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

I've never heard of it before.

When there is a football match for example they open the
barriers and implement something called "autocomplete".

That means the system in effect touches you out of the system
automatically without you having to do it. Sensors pick up cards
going through the barriers.

See my point elsethread about contactless debit card payment being
REALLY STUPID.

The problem is that to make sure your journey is completed by
the system you have to touch in at the same station within three
days. Or you get a maximum fare.

Because everyone always travels the same route in reverse on their
return journey.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

I hate baby seals. They get asked to all the best clubs.

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 07:21:13AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

I think it's simply the journalist getting in a muddle and jumping to
erroneous conclusions. I don't believe there's any 'long distance'
sensing or reading of Oyster cards going on whatsoever.

Another thread has mentioned reading them en masse and at a distance
when stations have particularly heavy traffic, such as just before
football games, with no need for passengers to put their cards anywhere
near the readers.

That seems to mean that it would charge my Oyster card, my contactless
debit card, and the other Oyster card that I bought earlier in the day
to give to a friend.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

Irregular English:
ladies glow; gentlemen perspire; brutes, oafs and athletes sweat

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 07:21:13AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

I think it's simply the journalist getting in a muddle and jumping to
erroneous conclusions. I don't believe there's any 'long distance'
sensing or reading of Oyster cards going on whatsoever.

Another thread has mentioned reading them en masse and at a distance
when stations have particularly heavy traffic, such as just before
football games, with no need for passengers to put their cards anywhere
near the readers.

That was confirmed soon afterwards to be the original journalist talking
******** in his article, as pointed out in one of the threads.

Paul S

"David Cantrell" wrote:

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 07:21:13AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

I think it's simply the journalist getting in a muddle and jumping to
erroneous conclusions. I don't believe there's any 'long distance'
sensing or reading of Oyster cards going on whatsoever.

Another thread has mentioned reading them en masse and at a distance
when stations have particularly heavy traffic, such as just before
football games, with no need for passengers to put their cards anywhere
near the readers.

That seems to mean that it would charge my Oyster card, my contactless
debit card, and the other Oyster card that I bought earlier in the day
to give to a friend.


It's also complete and utter nonsense, so don't waste your energy getting
annoyed about it!