On Feb 27, 1:47*am, wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 26, 3:02 pm, wrote:

What about more than one person using the same card? I use my credit
card to buy tickets for all the family quite often.

I don't think it'd be any different to Oyster - any one credit/debit
card could only be used in this way by one person at any one time (and
strictly speaking at least I'd expect it should only be the named
cardholder).

Multiple (regular, paper) tickets could still be purchased in one
transaction using a debit/credit card from the ticket office or ticket
machine.

People using the wrong card to get through a gate - or erroneously
using a card when they've already got a paper ticket - is an obvious
issue one can foresee about this development.

Rather destroys the pay-wave system for adults with children then.

Yes, I think they might as well give up and cancel the whole project,
since you've pointed that out I can now see there can't possibly be
any utility in this system whatsoever...

In message , at 10:25:59 on Sun, 27
Feb 2011, Paul Terry remarked:

Rather destroys the pay-wave system for adults with children then.

Pay wave can only be used for a purchase of up to £15 (only recently
increased from £10), so it's not really suitable for purchasing
multiple tickets.

I wonder if the same restrictions would apply to this ticketing
scenario? I get the impression it's a brand new scheme with potentially
brand new rules.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
09:02:03 on Sat, 26 Feb 2011, remarked:

What about more than one person using the same card? I use my
credit card
to buy tickets for all the family quite often.

A very good question. I suspect they'll have a slogan like "Travel
on the tube with Mastercard, if everyone in your party has one; For
everything else, there's Oyster".

Children with credit/debit cards? Doesn't sound likely to me.

why would a child want to pay adult Oyster fares when they could buy a paper
travelcard for less?

tim

On Feb 27, 2:20*am, wrote:
[snip]
So, the advantage for casual users of not needing to get Oyster for their
occasional visit to London because they can use paywave disappears if they
have children with them. Terrific!

Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

In message
, at
03:27:09 on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:
Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

For one thing, today you can't use an Oyster Card for a group, but you
can use a Credit Card (by buying several tickets at once).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:26:35 on Sun, 27 Feb
2011, tim.... remarked:

why would a child want to pay adult Oyster fares when they could buy a paper
travelcard for less?

Part of the attraction of the scheme is not having to queue up to buy
tickets (and also not needing to know the system well enough, including
speaking English, to be able to decide which tickets to buy).
--
Roland Perry

On Feb 27, 11:35*am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
03:27:09 on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

For one thing, today you can't use an Oyster Card for a group, but you
can use a Credit Card (by buying several tickets at once).

That's not what I was getting at. Children aged 5-10 travel free on
the Tube, DLR and LO "if travelling with an adult who has a valid
ticket, Freedom Pass or Veterans photocard or who is using pay as you
go" - that covers up to four children per adult - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14554.aspx
(Children under 5 travel for free too, but they're dealt with
separately as they have to be accompanied by an adult.)

I don't see any reason to imagine why this free travel for accompanied
children up to the age of 10 (inclusive) would be any different if the
adult was travelling using a 'pay and wave' credit/debit card instead
of an Oyster card.

In message , Roland Perry
writes]

In message , at 10:25:59 on Sun,
27 Feb 2011, Paul Terry remarked:

Pay wave can only be used for a purchase of up to £15 (only recently
increased from £10), so it's not really suitable for purchasing
multiple tickets.

I wonder if the same restrictions would apply to this ticketing
scenario? I get the impression it's a brand new scheme with potentially
brand new rules.

The limit is there because of the insecurity of contactless bank cards.
Lose the card and anyone can use it, typically for five transactions
before being asked to present a PIN (There's no real-time processing of
contactless payments, so even when a lost card is reported, it can't be
stopped immediately like a chip-and-pin card).

If that happens, the banks generally pick up the tab, so they would be
very loathe to increase their exposure to risk by upping the limit
(especially since TfL have already negotiated that a PIN will never be
requested at busy stations).
--
Paul Terry

In message , at 12:30:00 on Sun, 27
Feb 2011, Paul Terry remarked:
Pay wave can only be used for a purchase of up to £15 (only recently
increased from £10), so it's not really suitable for purchasing
multiple tickets.

I wonder if the same restrictions would apply to this ticketing
scenario? I get the impression it's a brand new scheme with
potentially brand new rules.

The limit is there because of the insecurity of contactless bank cards.
Lose the card and anyone can use it, typically for five transactions
before being asked to present a PIN (There's no real-time processing of
contactless payments, so even when a lost card is reported, it can't be
stopped immediately like a chip-and-pin card).

If that happens, the banks generally pick up the tab, so they would be
very loathe to increase their exposure to risk by upping the limit
(especially since TfL have already negotiated that a PIN will never be
requested at busy stations).

I don't agree. For all we know the risk is being borne by TfL, it's not
as if the customers are buying things with a tangible cost-of-sales
(like a packet of cigarettes). It seems from other reports that TfL will
be blacklisting cards within 4hrs, which indicates to me it's a special
scheme where TfL are indeed taking the risk.
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland Perry
writes

I don't agree. For all we know the risk is being borne by TfL,

Are you really saying that if someone loses their pay-and-wave card and
it is picked up by someone who then uses it to buy, say, packets of fags
up to the £75 limit, that TfL will recompense the banks?

I don't believe it.

It seems from other reports that TfL will be blacklisting cards within
4hrs, which indicates to me it's a special scheme where TfL are indeed
taking the risk.

Even if they do, it would be trivially easy for a petty thief to clear
the balance on the card within a few minutes. Four hours would be far
too long.

--
Paul Terry