In message , at 17:04:49 on
Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

When the credit/debit card linked to auto-topup expires, then they send
you an email asking you to update your card details (i.e. enter the new
card details), and advising that if you don't do so within a few days
they'll block (hotlist) your Oyster card. You get much the same email
if they've tried and failed to charge your card, e.g. if you've
cancelled your card after having lost it but not updated them with the
new card details.

I'm not sure if they send a reminder before the expiry of your card -
they should of course (indeed they quite possibly do - it's just that
the 'urgent action required' email sticks in my mind a bit more after I
lost and subsequently cancelled my debit card).

I'd imagine that the Oyster element of the OnePulse card wouldn't be
treated any differently in this regard compared to a normal Oyster card
(as I said earlier, there seems to have been scant integration of the
backend systems).

It'd be a bit ironic to change the credit card linked to the OnePulse's
Oyster, to a different card. But I suppose if the two are only loosely
linked (ie they don't automatically update it for you when they issue a
new card) then it's fair game.

Unless something has changed of late, deactivating auto-topup on an
Oyster card actually requires one to make a (Tube/rail) journey - which
is less than ideal.

Just like you have to, when you enable it.
--
Roland Perry

"David Walters" wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:18:35 -0000, Mizter T wrote:
Barclaycard are not offering OnePulse cards to new customers any more -
see:
http://www.barclaycard-onepulse.co.uk/

I expect that on expiry, the replacement card won't feature any separate
Oyster functionality (i.e. it won't be a 'combined' card) - in other
words
customers will be migrated over on to a new type of card, and the product
will be discontinued.

I've got a OnePulse card which expires tonight which has been replaced
by one that lasts until July 2014 so there appears to be some life in
it yet and plenty of overlap with the new payment method being live.

Thanks David - looks like I called that wrong, at least partially - as you
say there seems to be plenty of overlap.

"Roland Perry" wrote:

In message , at 17:04:49 on
Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

When the credit/debit card linked to auto-topup expires, then they send
you an email asking you to update your card details (i.e. enter the new
card details), and advising that if you don't do so within a few days
they'll block (hotlist) your Oyster card. You get much the same email
if they've tried and failed to charge your card, e.g. if you've
cancelled your card after having lost it but not updated them with the
new card details.

I'm not sure if they send a reminder before the expiry of your card -
they should of course (indeed they quite possibly do - it's just that
the 'urgent action required' email sticks in my mind a bit more after I
lost and subsequently cancelled my debit card).

I'd imagine that the Oyster element of the OnePulse card wouldn't be
treated any differently in this regard compared to a normal Oyster card
(as I said earlier, there seems to have been scant integration of the
backend systems).

It'd be a bit ironic to change the credit card linked to the OnePulse's
Oyster, to a different card. But I suppose if the two are only loosely
linked (ie they don't automatically update it for you when they issue a
new card) then it's fair game.

I reckon it'd be possible to do just that.


Unless something has changed of late, deactivating auto-topup on an
Oyster card actually requires one to make a (Tube/rail) journey - which
is less than ideal.

Just like you have to, when you enable it.

Indeed, it's just the same operation albeit 'in reverse'.

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:

wrote:

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:

A question for you Colin - do you think the fact that this upcoming
'pay and wave' facility isn't going to accommodate for an adult
travelling with 11-15 year old children, without those children
holding separate tickets, inherently mean the whole idea is invalid
- regardless of the number of other people who would benefit from it?

I think that the present system strongly tends to rip off visitors
from outside London (and completely casual users from inside London
but I doubt there are many of them). It's all part of the general
problem in public transport that it is often hard work to use the
systems if you are not a regular customer.

I thought Paywave was supposed to level things up a bit but it
continues the horrendous treatment of non-London children over the age
of 10 who get charged full fares and have a lot more hassle getting
any tickets unless they get day Travelcards from their stations of
origin outside London (so no use for overnight stays).

Eh? But children *can* buy Day Travelcards *within* London - the
off-peak version (zones 1-6) currently costs GBP 3.00.

They can if they queues at ticket offices, yes.

The 11-15 Oyster photocard is available to children aged 11-15 who
live outside London. Yes, you need to apply in advance; yes you
need to pay GBP 10 for it, yes, it's not spontaneous; yes, the
child needs to remember to bring it - but it's available and it's
not a secret: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14310.aspx

You'll need to use it a lot to justify spending £10 on it! Hardly
available for casual visitors, even those who plan ahead.

How do you propose that a 'pay and wave' fare payment system would
work for multiple people travelling together with one card?
(Without just allowing accompanying children aged 11-15 to travel
for free, which isn't going to happen.)

As Roland said, don't sell it as family-friendly.

It's the same for me if I stay overnight, or would be if I didn't use
my bike as I will tomorrow/Wednesday. All the ticketing integration
that Capitalcards brought in is being slowly eroded.

Eh? What's the same for you? (Really - I don't get what you're
saying.)

There are few NR+TfL non-day return tickets, mostly not competitively
priced and only allowing end-to-end returns and not multiple tube trips as
day Travelcards do. Using my bike minimises my need to use public
transport within London and so bypasses the problem.

Think about it. What tickets are there for a trip that departs Cambridge
one morning, then King's Cross-Westminster, Westminster-Putney, then
Putney-Westminster, Westminster-King's Cross and return to Cambridge the
next day? Compare with the products available for similar trips taking
place on one day only.

I disagree with the notion that ticketing integration is being
eroded - what is an annoyance is that the situation on National
Rail is subtly different (e.g. no free travel for accompanied
children aged 5-10), but that's not TfL's fault.

If the premium above the day return fare for a day travelcard rises to the
level FCC and NXEA have taken it, above the cost of two off peak tube
journeys, it is often not clear which is the better ticket to buy. The
difference is now £7.00 for those without railcards. A Zones 1 & 2
off-peak travelcard is now £6.60. So anyone travelling from Cambridge and
not travelling outside zones 1 & 2 should buy a day return and then a TfL
travelcard when they get to London. Getting a day travelcard always used
to be a no-brainer. That's what I call erosion!

Note that many other TOCs, including the also First-owned Great Western,
have lower travelcard premia so it is still a no-brainer to get one, e.g.
from Oxford where the premium is £3.50 on the same £21 day return fare to
London Terminals and £5 (FCC & super off-peak only) from Brighton (CDR
£15).

Checking some more locations I see the premium from Winchester is £9.80.
With a zones 1-6 day travelcard at £8, what is the point of selling an
out-of London day travelcard at that price other than to rip people off to
avoid a queue at Waterloo? This is especially odd given that the premium
from Basingstoke (also SWT) is only £4.80 (via Woking).

Another example is Canterbury where the premium is £3.30 (or £3.50 via
HS1) on the £25.40 off-peak day return.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:

wrote:

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:

A question for you Colin - do you think the fact that this upcoming
'pay and wave' facility isn't going to accommodate for an adult
travelling with 11-15 year old children, without those children
holding separate tickets, inherently mean the whole idea is invalid
- regardless of the number of other people who would benefit from it?

I think that the present system strongly tends to rip off visitors
from outside London (and completely casual users from inside London
but I doubt there are many of them). It's all part of the general
problem in public transport that it is often hard work to use the
systems if you are not a regular customer.

I thought Paywave was supposed to level things up a bit but it
continues the horrendous treatment of non-London children over the age
of 10 who get charged full fares and have a lot more hassle getting
any tickets unless they get day Travelcards from their stations of
origin outside London (so no use for overnight stays).

Eh? But children *can* buy Day Travelcards *within* London - the
off-peak version (zones 1-6) currently costs GBP 3.00.

They can if they queues at ticket offices, yes.

Well, that's something - your earlier "horrendous treatment" comment (quoted
above) didn't appear to acknowledge that was even a possibility.

(Also, FWIW, they can be purchased from NR ticket machines.)


The 11-15 Oyster photocard is available to children aged 11-15 who
live outside London. Yes, you need to apply in advance; yes you
need to pay GBP 10 for it, yes, it's not spontaneous; yes, the
child needs to remember to bring it - but it's available and it's
not a secret: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14310.aspx

You'll need to use it a lot to justify spending £10 on it! Hardly
available for casual visitors, even those who plan ahead.

Not sure what the "hardly" qualifier is meant to mean - these Oyster
photocards are available to all young people, casual visitors or not.
Whether getting one would be worthwhile or not depends on the individual
circumstances (e.g. for some the free bus travel could make it pay for
itself).


How do you propose that a 'pay and wave' fare payment system would
work for multiple people travelling together with one card?
(Without just allowing accompanying children aged 11-15 to travel
for free, which isn't going to happen.)

As Roland said, don't sell it as family-friendly.

Please tell me where there has been any suggestion that it was going to be
sold as "family friendly" - seriously, where? There's no mention or
implication of any such thing in the TfL press release.

It's rather easy to argue against a position that you have set up yourself.


It's the same for me if I stay overnight, or would be if I didn't use
my bike as I will tomorrow/Wednesday. All the ticketing integration
that Capitalcards brought in is being slowly eroded.

Eh? What's the same for you? (Really - I don't get what you're
saying.)

There are few NR+TfL non-day return tickets, mostly not competitively
priced and only allowing end-to-end returns and not multiple tube trips as
day Travelcards do. Using my bike minimises my need to use public
transport within London and so bypasses the problem.

Think about it. What tickets are there for a trip that departs Cambridge
one morning, then King's Cross-Westminster, Westminster-Putney, then
Putney-Westminster, Westminster-King's Cross and return to Cambridge the
next day? Compare with the products available for similar trips taking
place on one day only.

You use Oyster PAYG, or buy a Day Travelcard - so what's the problem? (Any
child could buy a Day Travelcard, or even suffer the unspeakable horrors of
obtaining an Oyster photocard.)

UIVMM there's never been an outboundary multiple-day Travelcard (i.e. period
return bundled with a multiple-day Travelcard) - or was there ever an
outboundary Weekend Travelcard?


I disagree with the notion that ticketing integration is being
eroded - what is an annoyance is that the situation on National
Rail is subtly different (e.g. no free travel for accompanied
children aged 5-10), but that's not TfL's fault.

If the premium above the day return fare for a day travelcard rises to the
level FCC and NXEA have taken it, above the cost of two off peak tube
journeys, it is often not clear which is the better ticket to buy. The
difference is now £7.00 for those without railcards. A Zones 1 & 2
off-peak travelcard is now £6.60. So anyone travelling from Cambridge and
not travelling outside zones 1 & 2 should buy a day return and then a TfL
travelcard when they get to London. Getting a day travelcard always used
to be a no-brainer. That's what I call erosion!

OK, understood - that is of course the profiteering TOCs doing (as opposed
to TfL's). Ultimately this is the look out of DfT Rail - they're the ones in
charge of rail fares policy - alas it sounds as though things are moving in
the direction of them being more hands-off rather than more hands-on in
regards to such matters (though the continuuing IEP project is I guess a
counter-example).


Note that many other TOCs, including the also First-owned Great Western,
have lower travelcard premia so it is still a no-brainer to get one, e.g.
from Oxford where the premium is £3.50 on the same £21 day return fare to
London Terminals and £5 (FCC & super off-peak only) from Brighton (CDR
£15).

Checking some more locations I see the premium from Winchester is £9.80.
With a zones 1-6 day travelcard at £8, what is the point of selling an
out-of London day travelcard at that price other than to rip people off to
avoid a queue at Waterloo? This is especially odd given that the premium
from Basingstoke (also SWT) is only £4.80 (via Woking).

Another example is Canterbury where the premium is £3.30 (or £3.50 via
HS1) on the £25.40 off-peak day return.

See my comments above - I agree, these are examples of rip-offs. In the
context of their continuing existence, my only advice to punters would be
either to use Oyster PAYG or else purchase their Travelcards from NR ticket
machines on the concourse on arrival at say Waterloo which will inevitably
be less busy the LU ticket machines and windows - of course doing that means
the offending TOC gets the commission for selling the ticket though.

I can fully appreciate your annoyance at this - and I see that it means for
a child making a day trip to London from say Cambridge, getting an
outboundary Travelcard is no longer the 'no brainer' it once was - but I
fail to see the connect between this issue and your apparent hostility to
this new 'pay and wave' scheme (which is just going to be another way for
adults to pay for their travels).

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

wrote:

Checking some more locations I see the premium from Winchester is £9.80.
With a zones 1-6 day travelcard at £8, what is the point of selling an
out-of London day travelcard at that price other than to rip people off
to
avoid a queue at Waterloo? This is especially odd given that the premium
from Basingstoke (also SWT) is only £4.80 (via Woking).

See my comments above - I agree, these are examples of rip-offs. In the
context of their continuing existence, my only advice to punters would be
either to use Oyster PAYG or else purchase their Travelcards from NR
ticket machines on the concourse on arrival at say Waterloo which will
inevitably be less busy the LU ticket machines and windows - of course
doing that means the offending TOC gets the commission for selling the
ticket though.

I'm wondering if someone in SWT's pricing department has made a major
cockup.

For a few origins I just checked down in Hants, the peak travelcard addon is
about £4, the offpeak is about £9.60, but the super offpeak is back to about
£4.00 ish. I usually get the super offpeak and hadn't noticed the
difference, but the two offpeak ticket types should really have the same
extra cost for the travelcard portion - surely?

Paul S

In message , at 19:52:01 on Mon,
28 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

As Roland said, don't sell it as family-friendly.

Please tell me where there has been any suggestion that it was going to
be sold as "family friendly" - seriously, where? There's no mention or
implication of any such thing in the TfL press release.

The scheme is already being described in such glowing terms as:

"[great for] millions of visitors who will flock to the Capital
to enjoy the greatest show on earth"

It's extremely likely that the publicity for that kind of thing will show
happy families grinning at each other - it's a modern cliche for almost
all leisure travel.

http://www.ofenhandwerk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/familytravel.jpg
--
Roland Perry

In message ,
writes

So, the advantage for casual users of not needing to get Oyster for their
occasional visit to London because they can use paywave disappears if they
have children with them. Terrific!

I imagine a lot of the early users will be tourists from other parts of
the UK and other countries. When visiting another large city I find
it's often quite hard to fathom out their equivalent of oyster works and
than actually buy one (and maybe recover one's deposit when leaving).

If visitors could just swipe a regular credit card it would save them a
lot of trouble, and still be cheaper than paying a large number of
single fares at inflated cash rates. Such customers might be willing to
forgive the other limitations, e.g. no capping or loading of railcards.


--
Clive Page

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...

If visitors could just swipe a regular credit card it would save them a
lot of trouble, and still be cheaper than paying a large number of single
fares at inflated cash rates. Such customers might be willing to forgive
the other limitations, e.g. no capping or loading of railcards.

If you read the whole thread, capping is presumed workable, as charging will
only be done on an 'end of the day' basis.

OTOH railcards don't seem to have been discussed at length yet...

Paul S

On Feb 28, 9:31*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 19:52:01 on Mon,
28 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

As Roland said, don't sell it as family-friendly.

Please tell me where there has been any suggestion that it was going to
be sold as "family friendly" - seriously, where? There's no mention or
implication of any such thing in the TfL press release.

The scheme is already being described in such glowing terms as:

* * * * "[great for] millions of visitors who will flock to the Capital
* * * * to enjoy the greatest show on earth"

It's extremely likely that the publicity for that kind of thing will show
happy families grinning at each other - it's a modern cliche for almost
all leisure travel.

http://www.ofenhandwerk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/familytravel.jpg

Why wait for evidence eh?

Meanwhile, I think it's totally disgusting and an absolute scandal
that each and every household in the country is going to be sent a
packet of pink strawberry flavoured chewing gum as part of the
government's focus on the happiness index - what a disgraceful waste
of taxpayers' money for what will be at best a temporary bubble of joy
that will inevitably pop.