On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 21:17:15 -0800 (PST)
john b wrote:
All this, to save three minutes going up the stairs and down the
escalator...?

Its not just that though , its the waiting for a victoria line train or
FCC train to do the 1/2 stops to finsbury. If the ELL becomes popular as a
way of skipping out central london then I suspect those lines will become
seriously jammed in the rush hour.

B2003

On 02/03/2011 09:52, Paul Scott wrote:
"Basil Jet" wrote in message
...
On 2011\03\01 22:55, Robin9 wrote:

Does anyone know why they have not taken it through Canonbury tunnel to
Finsbury Park? Lack of money or lack of understanding of London's public
transport requirement? It looks at though some work is being done to
facilitate trains through the tunnel again.

I wasn't aware it closed... it was singled when the overhead went in,
because there isn't room for double track with overhead.

There has been a recent short period of closure (certainly more than
just a few months) while the NLL resignalling and track alterations were
happening - but it was a part of their project timetable TTBOMK.

Paul S
Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Basil Jet wrote:

On 2011\03\01 22:55, Robin9 wrote:

Does anyone know why they have not taken it through Canonbury tunnel to
Finsbury Park? Lack of money or lack of understanding of London's
public transport requirement? It looks at though some work is being
done to facilitate trains through the tunnel again.

I wasn't aware it closed... it was singled when the overhead went in,
because there isn't room for double track with overhead.

Specifically, i think it's that there isn't room for a double track
bearing freight trains with overhead. Freight trains being taller than
passenger trains (passenger trains all fit in W6A in this country, i
believe; squinting at a map from 2004, it looks like the Canonbury curve
might be W9).

tom

--
Tubes are the foul subterranean entrails of the London beast, stuffed
with the day's foetid offerings. -- Tokugawa

On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern
City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south of
Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that line,
though.

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

tom

--
Tubes are the foul subterranean entrails of the London beast, stuffed
with the day's foetid offerings. -- Tokugawa

On 2011\03\02 22:44, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern
City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south
of Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that
line, though.

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

The Big Tube ends at Drayton Park (the road).
The Canonbury Curve tunnel ends near Ronalds Road. This is quite clear
from the satellite photos in the map resource of your choice. The
Canonbury Curve is significantly higher than the Moorgate Line at
Drayton Park station, I think high enough to bridge over the Moorgate
Line in the station, although the bridging actually occurs north of the
station. Whenever I have ended up in Drayton Park station for ten
minutes there has always been a train passing on the curve, so it got
more use than people seem to think, although I have not been there in
the last five years.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
th.li...
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern
City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south of
Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that line,
though.

No, the single line from Canonbury tunnel is separate past Drayton Park, and
it is at a higher level - and when it reverts to double track the down
Canonbury line passes over both the up and down Moorgate lines. They remain
separate all the way up to Finsbury Park, with the Moorgate lines on the
'insides'. Both down lines pass under the four main lines, the only
connections are just south of FP station, similar on the up side.

No apparent space where there could have been platforms when it was two
track - I haven't ever read of any.

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

I'd recommend Google Maps aerial view as by far the easiest explanation...

Paul S

In article , ()
wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel
and Finsbury Park?

No. It only took 70 years to connect the GNCR with the GN. Until the works
before the war for the aborted Northern Heights extension of the GNCR
there was no real connection AIUI. The GNCR is well below the level of
other lines in the area. I remember a fairly steep ramp from Drayton Park
depot up towards the GN, well away from the GNCR running lines.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 22:34:44 +0000
Tom Anderson wrote:
Specifically, i think it's that there isn't room for a double track
bearing freight trains with overhead. Freight trains being taller than
passenger trains (passenger trains all fit in W6A in this country, i
believe; squinting at a map from 2004, it looks like the Canonbury curve
might be W9).

I don't think its the height so much as the profile. Passenger trains
curve in towards the top whereas container freight wagons are a box shape
which tend not to work in tunnels where the curved roof would cut in on
the boxy corners.

B2003

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
th.li...

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

You'll appreciate this I think Tom, found it this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZxk08n8Jag

At about 1.03 you can see a connection from Finsbury Park coming in from the
right of the southbound tunnel. That approximates to the current 'up
Moorgate' route from Finsbury Park - the flyover shown above has since been
rebuilt, but that is carrying the down line from Canonbury over the 'tubes'.
The LU tunnel portals were demolished and a new down Moorgate route formed
roughly where they were, passing under the down Canonbury.

I think at the time the film was shot that connection on the right would
have been unused, remains of the abandoned 'Northern Heights' route (which
Colin has since mentioned) that would have extended the Northern Line north
west of Finsbury Park.

Hope that is of interest to you, and many others.

Paul S

"Basil Jet" wrote:
[snip]
The Big Tube ends at Drayton Park (the road).
The Canonbury Curve tunnel ends near Ronalds Road. This is quite clear
from the satellite photos in the map resource of your choice. The
Canonbury Curve is significantly higher than the Moorgate Line at Drayton
Park station, I think high enough to bridge over the Moorgate Line in the
station, although the bridging actually occurs north of the station.
Whenever I have ended up in Drayton Park station for ten minutes there has
always been a train passing on the curve, so it got more use than people
seem to think, although I have not been there in the last five years.

West Anglia trains used to be serviced and stabled at Hornsey depot (the
result I think of the WAGN TOC 'grouping' of the WA and GN), and so used the
Canonbury Curve and Graham Road Curve to get to and from the depot to their
operating patch on the West Anglia lines out of Liverpool Street (ECS moves
for the peaktime extras meant stock used this connection during the day
too). This arrangement came to an end a while back - just as well because
the NLL upgrade required the (temporary) severance of this route.