wrote:

JNugent wrote:

It was Maggie and co that forced an end to tied housing.

Sheer, biased, blinkered, knee-jerk, nonsense.
The tied cottage was being "phased out" (pilloried as a
social anachronism) decades before 1979.
S'funny, that.
Had the tied cottages remained in their original use,
there'd be less need for hand-wringing over the housing
fate of agricultural workers, wouldn't there?

I didn't say it wasn't on the way out, I merely made the point that
Thatcher forced it to end. A subtle but distinct difference that is
obviously lost on you.

The more so because it was a lie.

JNugent wrote:
wrote:

JNugent wrote:

It was Maggie and co that forced an end to tied housing.

Sheer, biased, blinkered, knee-jerk, nonsense.
The tied cottage was being "phased out" (pilloried as a
social anachronism) decades before 1979.
S'funny, that.
Had the tied cottages remained in their original use,
there'd be less need for hand-wringing over the housing
fate of agricultural workers, wouldn't there?

I didn't say it wasn't on the way out, I merely made the
point that Thatcher forced it to end. A subtle but
distinct difference that is obviously lost on you.

The more so because it was a lie.

So it wasn't a Thatcher government the introduced the "Right to Buy"
legislation then?

wrote:

JNugent wrote:

wrote:

JNugent wrote:

It was Maggie and co that forced an end to tied housing.

Sheer, biased, blinkered, knee-jerk, nonsense.
The tied cottage was being "phased out" (pilloried as a
social anachronism) decades before 1979.
S'funny, that.
Had the tied cottages remained in their original use,
there'd be less need for hand-wringing over the housing
fate of agricultural workers, wouldn't there?

I didn't say it wasn't on the way out, I merely made the
point that Thatcher forced it to end. A subtle but
distinct difference that is obviously lost on you.

The more so because it was a lie.

So it wasn't a Thatcher government the introduced the "Right to Buy"
legislation then?

No.

As you would know (if you were not simply motivated by unthinking knee-jerk
socialism - if you'll forgive the tautology), the RTB:

(a) was introduced under the Edward Heath government of 1970-1974, and
(b) only applied to council houses - and certainly not to tied cottages on
farms.

Try again?

JNugent wrote:
wrote:

JNugent wrote:

wrote:

JNugent wrote:

It was Maggie and co that forced an end to tied
housing.

Sheer, biased, blinkered, knee-jerk, nonsense.
The tied cottage was being "phased out" (pilloried as a
social anachronism) decades before 1979.
S'funny, that.
Had the tied cottages remained in their original use,
there'd be less need for hand-wringing over the housing
fate of agricultural workers, wouldn't there?

I didn't say it wasn't on the way out, I merely made the
point that Thatcher forced it to end. A subtle but
distinct difference that is obviously lost on you.

The more so because it was a lie.

So it wasn't a Thatcher government the introduced the
"Right to Buy" legislation then?

No.

As you would know (if you were not simply motivated by
unthinking knee-jerk socialism - if you'll forgive the
tautology), the RTB:

Whether you choose to believe it or not some people in this world are not
driven by ideology or dogma but are cpable of establishing the facts for
themselves and making up their own minds.

(a) was introduced under the Edward Heath government of
1970-1974,

Wrong (again)
"The statutory Right To Buy was introduced on the 3rd October 1980 in
England, Wales and Scotland."
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib...9/rp99-036.pdf

and (b) only applied to council houses - and
certainly not to tied cottages on farms.

Your evidence is from?


Try again?

Feel free so to do.

wrote:

JNugent wrote:

wrote:


It was Maggie and co that forced an end to tied
housing.

Sheer, biased, blinkered, knee-jerk, nonsense.

[ ... ]

So it wasn't a Thatcher government the introduced the
"Right to Buy" legislation then?

No.
As you would know (if you were not simply motivated by
unthinking knee-jerk socialism - if you'll forgive the
tautology), the RTB:

(a) was introduced under the Edward Heath government of
1970-1974

Whether you choose to believe it or not some people in this world are
not driven by ideology or dogma but are cpable of establishing the
facts for themselves and making up their own minds.

You can't just "make up your own mind [sic]" to fabricate history. The RTB
council houses (for tenatnts of councils) was established in the early 1970s
under the Heath government. That's a fact. Stamping your foot won't make it
untrue.

Wrong (again)
"The statutory Right To Buy was introduced on the 3rd October 1980 in
England, Wales and Scotland."
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib...9/rp99-036.pdf

Don't believe everything you believe in Labour government propaganda. Even
the paper you have cited makes it clear that this was a *statutory* scheme
(my emphasis). There are other sorts of scheme.

The RTB was introduced under Edward Heath, but with a (major) flaw -
councils didn't *have* to comply (they could adopt a policy of not selling).
Of course, this was still better than the previous situation, where a
council couldn't sell even if they wanted to. In effect, it was mainly
Conservative councils that allowed their tenants to buy under the Heath
legislation. Changes in council control could mean a change in sales policy
(either way) - very unsatisfactory for tenants wishing to buy. That flaw was
corrected under Thatcher, but the RTB was first established under Heath (and
believe me, the Labour Party squawked enough about it at the time).

and (b) only applied to council houses - and
certainly not to tied cottages on farms.

Your evidence is from?

Re-read your own citation - you will see (if you read it) that it applies
only to council properties (there has never been a right to force a private
landlord to sell - leaseholds of certain blocks of flats excepted). Even
housing association tenants find that the RTB (rather unfairly, IMHO)
doesn't apply to them.

JNugent wrote:
wrote:

JNugent wrote:

wrote:


It was Maggie and co that forced an end to tied
housing.

Sheer, biased, blinkered, knee-jerk, nonsense.

[ ... ]

So it wasn't a Thatcher government the introduced the
"Right to Buy" legislation then?

No.
As you would know (if you were not simply motivated by
unthinking knee-jerk socialism - if you'll forgive the
tautology), the RTB:

(a) was introduced under the Edward Heath government of
1970-1974

Whether you choose to believe it or not some people in
this world are
not driven by ideology or dogma but are cpable of
establishing the
facts for themselves and making up their own minds.

You can't just "make up your own mind [sic]" to fabricate
history. The RTB council houses (for tenatnts of councils)
was established in the early 1970s under the Heath
government. That's a fact. Stamping your foot won't make it
untrue.

Wrong (again)
"The statutory Right To Buy was introduced on the 3rd
October 1980 in England, Wales and Scotland."
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib...9/rp99-036.pdf

Don't believe everything you believe in Labour government
propaganda. Even the paper you have cited makes it clear
that this was a *statutory* scheme (my emphasis). There are
other sorts of scheme.

The RTB was introduced under Edward Heath, but with a
(major) flaw - councils didn't *have* to comply (they could
adopt a policy of not selling). Of course, this was still
better than the previous situation, where a council
couldn't sell even if they wanted to. In effect, it was
mainly Conservative councils that allowed their tenants to
buy under the Heath legislation. Changes in council control
could mean a change in sales policy (either way) - very
unsatisfactory for tenants wishing to buy. That flaw was
corrected under Thatcher, but the RTB was first established
under Heath (and believe me, the Labour Party squawked
enough about it at the time).

So there was no "right to buy", merely that the council could sell if they
so chose.


and (b) only applied to council houses - and
certainly not to tied cottages on farms.

Your evidence is from?

Re-read your own citation - you will see (if you read it)
that it applies only to council properties (there has never
been a right to force a private landlord to sell -
leaseholds of certain blocks of flats excepted). Even
housing association tenants find that the RTB (rather
unfairly, IMHO) doesn't apply to them.

Why should people in Council or other housing have the right to buy and
preclude someone else who needs a low rent place to live from have the
advantage that the buyer has had? Why not create a scheme in which long term
council tenants can get assistance to buy a house on the open market?

Why not create a scheme in which long term
council tenants can get assistance to buy a house on the open market?



Seems sensible to me, as long as it does not involve me subsidising them as
in when they bought their houses.

I was always surprised by the sudden increase in value of these houses, who
in their right mind would want to buy a house on a council estate unless the
price was artificially low.

wrote:

JNugent wrote:

[ ... ]

The RTB was introduced under Edward Heath, but with a
(major) flaw - councils didn't *have* to comply (they could
adopt a policy of not selling). Of course, this was still
better than the previous situation, where a council
couldn't sell even if they wanted to. In effect, it was
mainly Conservative councils that allowed their tenants to
buy under the Heath legislation. Changes in council control
could mean a change in sales policy (either way) - very
unsatisfactory for tenants wishing to buy. That flaw was
corrected under Thatcher, but the RTB was first established
under Heath (and believe me, the Labour Party squawked
enough about it at the time).

So there was no "right to buy", merely that the council could sell if
they so chose.

Before then, there was neither a right to buy a council house nor a right to
sell one (even if the council wanted to sell).

and (b) only applied to council houses - and
certainly not to tied cottages on farms.

Your evidence is from?

Re-read your own citation - you will see (if you read it)
that it applies only to council properties (there has never
been a right to force a private landlord to sell -
leaseholds of certain blocks of flats excepted). Even
housing association tenants find that the RTB (rather
unfairly, IMHO) doesn't apply to them.

Why should people in Council or other housing have the right to buy
and preclude someone else who needs a low rent place to live from
have the advantage that the buyer has had? Why not create a scheme in
which long term council tenants can get assistance to buy a house on
the open market?

A good question.

At the micro-scale it is, IMO, a telling question.

At the macro-scale, things look very different. It has been argued about
many times in (say) uk.politics.misc.

Try a Google Groups search in that NG for "RTB" and "council tenants".