Kat wrote:
snip
Like I said there can be up to an hour
between buses and bendy-buses aren't going to fix that - a boot up
the backside of the bus company might though!

The bit from Bow Flyover to Bow Road station is a real bottle neck;
stopping people parking just before the bridge (and the turning into
Southern Grove) might help too...

If they blocked off the Bow Rd end of Southern Grove (the other end already
being blocked) the only way in would be from Burdett Rd in the middle of the
market where cars and vans already double-park. Anyway, it's not in the
council's interest to block it off as their Social Services offices are down
there, including the haha Mobility Unit.

As for bottle-necks - the whole route from Ilford to Aldgate is a
bottle-neck :-(
--
Phil ,,,^.".^,,,


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.555 / Virus Database: 347 - Release Date: 23/12/2003

"Edward Cowling" wrote in message ...
Someone said to me the other day that if nothing
else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable
way to travel.

Everyone uses buses these days, they said.

Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in
centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles
in the rain than use one.

What is the overall perception of them out there
in Internet land ??

Well, Mr Cowling, we've got the test results back, and I'm afraid that
the diagnosis is that you're a ****, with an underlying condition of
snobbishness aggravting the existing symptoms.

Dave Newt wrote the
following in:



Kat wrote:

In message , Redonda
writes

According to the local paper they were removed because people
were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going
backwards because of delays on Bow Road.

Seems odd that people would rather have no information at all.

Seems even odder that TfL/Bus companies would rather remove the
provision of information than try to do something about the
underlying problem...

What exactly do you suggest doing about the underlying problem? Banning
cars from Bow Road?

--
message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith.
Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can.

"Handlebar catch and nipple."

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:57:30 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .

I have similar criticisms of cashless boarding and
changes to publicity provision that I think are half
baked and badly executed. The concepts sound
fine but the reality is a long way away from the original
intent.

Could you please elaborate? Thanks.

As you asked so nicely :-)

On cashless boarding I think the street machines are too cheap and of
poor quality. From comments on various groups there are reliability
issues with them, they are not intuitive to use and they are already
being modified to reduce tampering with the coin slot. Their limited
functionality and lack of change giving creates issues for the future,
potentially imposes limitations on the fare levels that can be sensibly
charged in future thus meaning larger than (strictly) necessary leaps in
fares in the future. There is also the rather obvious problem of the
machine staying at the normal stop which might be closed due to
roadworks leaving people with a walk to and fro from a temporary stop.
This was the case with the w/b stop at Warren St recently. The temporary
stop was a least 1 min away from the machine - there was no notice at
the temporary stop to advise people they HAD to go to the machine to buy
a ticket in advance. That is not passenger friendly.

The rules that the drivers have to operate to are also not very
friendly. I understand that TfL have to have rules and that they have to
try to apply them or else the concept will never stick but there are too
many instances of people being kicked off buses to go to machines,
people being abused by drivers for not complying with the rules, the
opposite case of drivers bending the rules and there being no
consistency. You also have the odd discrepancy of conductor buses having
one set of rules, artics having another and other buses in the cashless
zone operated to other rules. No wonder people are confused.

I do understand the benefits that TfL are trying to deliver but the
current position is a mess. I cannot see the existing concept working
across London. I hope Oyster will unlock a lot of the problems when bus
pre-pay starts as the fraud check is done by the card / reader interface
and the transaction is simple. The boarding policy on artics is also
encouraging fraud as I do not believe the level of revenue check is in
place at levels that would act as deterrent. Again I understand there is
a business case trade off between revenue lost and running time gained
but I feel very uncomfortable with taxpayers effectively subsidising an
increase in public transport fraud.

On publicity provision I am concerned about a trend towards dumbing down
information to passengers. I accept I am lucky in that I can read a
timetable and a map. I know there are many people who struggle with
these tasks although I cannot comprehend what it must be like. I will
happily say at the outset that I am a traditionalist who links to be
able to

a) buy or obtain detailed timetables for a network
b) buy or obtain a high quality network wide route map.

TfL provide neither of those things. There are various local guides and
the quadrant maps. These are often very hard to obtain without a fight
although I accept the local one is usually posted through your letter
box. Information on public services should be a right not a privilege
and no one should have to go through fifty steps to try to get a bus
timetable or guide. Although there are lots of shiny bus station offices
apparently stuffed with booklets you try and find the man who has the
key! And if you find him try to get a civil response to a request for a
book or a map - it's rare that you get a decent response.

TfL have closed down many travel information centres including recently
opened ones in the suburbs as well as popular ones in Central London.
This is a retrograde step.

I dislike the Journey Planner and find it cumbersome to use. I believe
there is too much emphasis on internet provided information and this has
been at the cost of the more traditional "channels". While I am very
happy to use the Internet the two sites I use the most to get at
detailed London bus information are not run by TfL at all - ironic isn't
it?

www.busmap.co.uk
www.londonbusroutes.net for those who may be interested!

oh and www.firstlondontimetables.co.uk is good for First's services in
London. I can actually get the proper time for every bus on my local
service via this site - hooray.

Bus stop information panels are being dumbed down to the extent that
they are useless. They are also inaccurate - an example being route 34
where the stop specific panels say buses run every 6-12 mins Monday to
Friday. This is quite wrong - there are about 2 intervals in the early
morning when a couple of buses leave 6 mins apart because the running
time increases to reflect traffic conditions and they arrive 8 mins
apart at the terminus. Buses actually run every 8-9 mins for the better
part of the day and then every 12 in the evening. To say every 6-12
could mean every 6 or every 12 or every 6 then 12 then 6 then 12. It is
all very unclear and unhelpful - all because a computer trawled the base
information and found the minimum and maximum headways. Why is it a
state secret to know the exact time a bus is supposed to turn up at your
stop? - they can do this for high frequency services in the Netherlands
and Germany with no difficulty. All the base information exists - why
can't the user have easy and convenient access to it?

If you read Ken's Transport Strategy it promises much in the field of
information and publicity. The result to date is very disappointing in
that (IMO) the quality has gone down, it is harder to obtain, there is a
"one size fits all" policy and I don't think it is really any easier for
car owners or occasional users to feel comfortable with understanding
what the transport network offers. There is a long, long way to go.

Now I expect Mr Woolley to come running along shortly to defend London
Buses so I'll give him a wave now :-)))
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:11:35 -0000, "Redonda"
wrote:

[buses at Mile End]
According to the local paper they were removed because people were
complaining about the times for the next bus actually going backwards
because of delays on Bow Road. Like I said there can be up to an hour
between buses and bendy-buses aren't going to fix that - a boot up the
backside of the bus company might though!

Well First didn't bid to keep the route so you'll be getting super
Stagecoach bendy buses on the 25 instead.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:55:16 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote:

[route 25 and getting to Whitechapel easily]

Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated
buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems....

Rob

do you *really* believe that artics on the 25 will solve the crowding
problems for someone who has clearly stated they have real problems with
using the current low floor buses?

The artics have fewer seats than a double decker and obviously a much
greater standing capacity - all my anecdotal evidence suggests you just
get a long single deck crush on artics on busy routes. I don't call that
a solution to crowding problems for the mobility impaired.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Robin May
writes
Dave Newt wrote the
following in:



Kat wrote:

In message , Redonda
writes

According to the local paper they were removed because people
were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going
backwards because of delays on Bow Road.

Seems odd that people would rather have no information at all.

Seems even odder that TfL/Bus companies would rather remove the
provision of information than try to do something about the
underlying problem...

What exactly do you suggest doing about the underlying problem? Banning
cars from Bow Road?

Yes please.... except mine of course (and I suppose emergency vehicles
can be allowed too.)
--
Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra,
sticky bears is ninepence"

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:47:37 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:55:16 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote:

[route 25 and getting to Whitechapel easily]

Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated
buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems....

Rob

do you *really* believe that artics on the 25 will solve the crowding
problems for someone who has clearly stated they have real problems with
using the current low floor buses?

The 25 has ongoing problems with crowding.


The artics have fewer seats than a double decker and obviously a much
greater standing capacity - all my anecdotal evidence suggests you just
get a long single deck crush on artics on busy routes. I don't call that
a solution to crowding problems for the mobility impaired.

unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.


Rob.
(admits to working for TfL)
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.

I'd like to see how they tip out.
I'd guess that the middle door will line up nicely with the railings
outside the station...
(Sorry to comment locally but I've seen how difficult it is for people
to alight when two come at once)
--
Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra,
sticky bears is ninepence"

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:18:25 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.

I'd like to see how they tip out.
I'd guess that the middle door will line up nicely with the railings
outside the station...
(Sorry to comment locally but I've seen how difficult it is for people
to alight when two come at once)

Let the passengers off the bus first please!

Move right down inside the saloon!

Stand clear of the closing doors!


(Sounds familiar?!)

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk