In message , at 14:45:12 on Tue, 8
Mar 2011, Paul Terry remarked:

I believe some new arrangements were made regarding bus stops
recently, although there seems to be all sorts of confusion about what
exactly these arrangements are.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques..._at_compulsory

I can hardly believe I've read it correctly, but it seems to say that
TfL are standardizing on the "compulsory" flag, at which passengers
must always request the bus to stop.

No, it seems to be saying the driver must treat every stop as
compulsory, unless convinced otherwise.

In Geneva, all stops appear to be compulsory (and the bus does stop)
even if there's no-one stood at it and the bus clearly has no passengers
either standing or making their way to the door. This gets a bit tedious
when the route is lightly loaded!
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote:

In message , at 14:45:12 on Tue, 8
Mar 2011, Paul Terry remarked:

I believe some new arrangements were made regarding bus stops
recently, although there seems to be all sorts of confusion about what
exactly these arrangements are.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques..._at_compulsory

I can hardly believe I've read it correctly, but it seems to say that TfL
are standardizing on the "compulsory" flag, at which passengers must
always request the bus to stop.

No, it seems to be saying the driver must treat every stop as compulsory,
unless convinced otherwise.

In Geneva, all stops appear to be compulsory (and the bus does stop) even
if there's no-one stood at it and the bus clearly has no passengers either
standing or making their way to the door. This gets a bit tedious when the
route is lightly loaded!

What a muddle.

The one thing I'm definitely very much against is the bus having to stop at
each and every stop regardless, i.e. like the Geneva situation you outline
above - that'd just be utterly daft.

My practice these days is to generally always hail the bus or ring the bell,
though that said I don't think I ring the bell when the bus is approaching a
major bus stop as I know it'll stop (though someone else will prob ring the
bell anyway) - though if it was late (or v early) or the bus wasn't at all
busy then I probably would ring the bell just to be sure (the old rule for
night buses was that every stop was to be treated as a request stop).
Likewise if I'm at a relatively busy bus stop and it's self evident that
people want to get on the bus then I quite likely wouldn't hail it, though
again it's quite likely someone would (albeit perhaps a 'half-hearted' hail,
IYSWIM).

Some clarity and passenger instruction / communication is needed, me thinks.

In message , at 15:33:30 on
Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Mizter T remarked:

Some clarity and passenger instruction / communication is needed, me
thinks.

Nottingham buses have an illuminated sign near the driver which says
"Stopping" if anyone has rung the bell. That way you can tell if anyone
else has rung it before you.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote:

In message , at 15:33:30 on Tue,
8 Mar 2011, Mizter T remarked:

Some clarity and passenger instruction / communication is needed, me
thinks.

Nottingham buses have an illuminated sign near the driver which says
"Stopping" if anyone has rung the bell. That way you can tell if anyone
else has rung it before you.


London buses have this too - it's now incorporated into the iBus information
display.

My comment was more just about how the present situation is a bit of an
unclear muddle. (Though TBH I'd rather have this vague muddle than buses
having to stop at each and every stop regardless.)

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:58:53 -0000, "Mizter T"
wrote:

London buses have this too - it's now incorporated into the iBus information
display.

People seem to think that it's an invitation to press the button
again...

My comment was more just about how the present situation is a bit of an
unclear muddle. (Though TBH I'd rather have this vague muddle than buses
having to stop at each and every stop regardless.)

It seems to work quite well at the moment. Perhaps the answer *is* to
quietly change the bus stop flags and let people get on with what
they'd do anyway. Everywhere else I have travelled, a ding of the
bell to get off is expected, at any stop. In London, it no longer
does any harm.

When getting on the bus, it's not so clear-cut. A Berlin bus driver
once got quite irate at my wave. Nobody else minds. Perhaps a
theatrical extraction of change or ticket, or lunge towards the bus
stop pole is a compromise. Eye contact with the driver can work as
well, and ensure a suitable position for the front doors, where that's
the done thing.

I wonder whether Roland's experience of Geneva was more about
timetable adherence than any rules about stopping, at least that's
what it seemed like to me when I was in Zurich.

Richard.

In message , at 00:47:24 on
Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Richard remarked:
London buses have this too - it's now incorporated into the iBus information
display.

People seem to think that it's an invitation to press the button
again...

Us Nottingham folk seem to be able to work out that if the sign is lit
up there's no need to ring again.

When getting on the bus, it's not so clear-cut. A Berlin bus driver
once got quite irate at my wave. Nobody else minds. Perhaps a
theatrical extraction of change or ticket, or lunge towards the bus
stop pole is a compromise. Eye contact with the driver can work as
well, and ensure a suitable position for the front doors, where that's
the done thing.

Again, here in Nottingham what people do is stick out an arm, and the
bus puts on its left indicator - if it hasn't done so already as a
result of dropping someone off.

I wonder whether Roland's experience of Geneva was more about
timetable adherence than any rules about stopping, at least that's
what it seemed like to me when I was in Zurich.

In off-peak periods there are a couple of places that my Nottingham
buses are sometimes clearly waiting for the timetable to catch up, but
the Geneva ones treat each bus stop the way you are supposed to approach
a "Stop" road junction. ie come to a halt for a split second, then
immediately move off (assuming its safe). Avoiding getting ahead of the
timetable can be done by driving slower between stops. The roads there
are clear enough (or there are bus priority measures) so there's little
conflicting traffic to worry about most of the time.
--
Roland Perry

This is the most recent response I have received (albeit almost two
years ago now) on this topic ....

"Thank you for contacting London Buses, regarding a route 345 bus
driver, who failed to stop for you at 0822 hours at the end of
Coldharbour Lane, heading towards Camberwell on 17 March 2009.

"All drivers trained by London General undergo a thorough and
intensive training programme, which includes a strong emphasis on
customer care. Carrying passengers to their destinations is, after
all, the very nature of the service that we provide and we expect our
staff to do so in a safe, courteous and caring manner.

"During training, drivers are instructed to stop at all white
compulsory stops and to be fully alert and aware of passengers wishing
to board at red request stops. I am sorry you have had reason to
report the contrary on this occasion."

The implication appears to be that the distinction between compulsory
and request stops remains, despite its absence from any TfL
publicity. But there is clearly no enthusiasm from TfL to enforce
it. Writing letters of complaint elicit a polite reply, like the one
above, followed by an assurance that action has been taken, but
nothing ever changes.

peter

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:33:30 on Tue,
8 Mar 2011, Mizter T remarked:

Some clarity and passenger instruction / communication is needed, me
thinks.

Nottingham buses have an illuminated sign near the driver which says
"Stopping" if anyone has rung the bell.

Most new buses all over the world now have this.

tim

Roland Perry wrote

In Geneva, all stops appear to be compulsory (and the bus does stop)
even if there's no-one stood at it and the bus clearly has no
passengers
either standing or making their way to the door. This gets a bit
tedious
when the route is lightly loaded!

One reason to ring the bell on country bus routes is that standing up
or moving before the bus actually stops can be unsafe, especially if
one is not very secure on ones feet.

So expecting the driver to notice only works when the passenger feels
it safe to move when the bus isn't stationary.

--
Mike D

In message 01cbdde1$8fc4a380$LocalHost@default, at 02:22:21 on Wed, 9
Mar 2011, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

One reason to ring the bell on country bus routes is that standing up
or moving before the bus actually stops can be unsafe, especially if
one is not very secure on ones feet.

So expecting the driver to notice only works when the passenger feels
it safe to move when the bus isn't stationary.

That depends how far away the bells are. If this is an issue, then the
buses here have about half the seats within reach of the bell without
getting up.
--
Roland Perry