On Mar 12, 8:55*am, Paul Corfield wrote:
They were an overly complex "solution" to a perceived risk to revenue.
The fact that the people who wanted the system put in place did
*nothing* to advertise it to their passengers says it all. *It was also
clear from early GLA member questions that there was little or no
training of TOC staff about the concept and why it was required.

You then move on to the next nonsense which is that the people who
wanted it, did nothing about it then penalty fared their own passengers
for not complying with a system requirement they probably knew nothing
about. You couldn't make it up.

Were people *actually* PFed for not having OEPs, or is that just
extrapolated from theoretical possibility?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Mar 12, 12:41*am, john b wrote:
Were people *actually* PFed for not having OEPs,
It has been reported that Southeastern have been issuing Penalty Fares
for not having an OEP set. See, for example, the response by "Louise"
on this page:
http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/2011/0...hange-to-oeps/

Paul Corfield wrote:

extrapolated from theoretical possibility?

South Eastern seem to be the main culprits. I read something last night
that suggested they had programmed their gates to reject Oyster cards
when OEPs were not set. Naturally a ticket inspector was standing close
by to issue a PF.

Are you sure about that? I've used Oyster PAYG between Sydenham Hill
and Victoria several times, and never had any problems at all.

It sounds like one of those urban legends. You know how they start -
someone once had problems with a faulty Oyster reader, the badly-
trained ticket inspector didn't know what was wrong and mistakenly
assumed it was something to do the lack of an OEP, and the customer in
turn mistakenly assumed all sorts of weird conspiracy theories.

Given how many faulty Oyster readers there are out there, that's the
most likely explanation. There's one reader at Gipsy Hill that reads
the card and opens the barrier to let you out, no problems, but
sometimes doesn't always manage to write to tell the card that the
journey's been completed! Three times it given me an Unresolved
Journey because of that! I've tried telling the station man about it,
but he doesn't believe and/or understand it!

_That's_ why Oyster is a real con. It promises you "Sacrifice your
privacy and you'll be rewarded with cheap offpeak fares that you used
to get on paper anyway," but then it doesn't always keep its side of
the bargain and give us those cheap fares! You don't need additional
conspiracy theories about SouthEastern and OEPs, when the basic
concept of Oyster is already such a nightmare!

The sooner paper offpeak cheap day returns are restored within the
London area, the better!

"solar penguin" wrote in message
...

Are you sure about that? I've used Oyster PAYG between Sydenham Hill
and Victoria several times, and never had any problems at all.


And that's using PAYG in combination with a travelcard - if so for which
zones?

Paul S

Paul Scott wrote:
"solar penguin" wrote in message
...

Are you sure about that? I've used Oyster PAYG between Sydenham Hill
and Victoria several times, and never had any problems at all.


And that's using PAYG in combination with a travelcard - if so for which
zones?


No Travelcard. But that doesn't matter because the original poster
didn't mention anything at all about Travelcards.

In the bit you deliberately snipped he said, "South Eastern seem to be
the main culprits. I read something last night that suggested they had
programmed their gates to reject Oyster cards
when OEPs were not set."

As stated, that seems to apply to normal Oysters as well as ones with
Travelcards on them.

"solar penguin" wrote in message
...

Paul Scott wrote:
"solar penguin" wrote in message
...

Are you sure about that? I've used Oyster PAYG between Sydenham Hill
and Victoria several times, and never had any problems at all.

And that's using PAYG in combination with a travelcard - if so for which
zones?

No Travelcard. But that doesn't matter because the original poster
didn't mention anything at all about Travelcards.

In the bit you deliberately snipped he said, "South Eastern seem to be
the main culprits. I read something last night that suggested they had
programmed their gates to reject Oyster cards
when OEPs were not set."

As stated, that seems to apply to normal Oysters as well as ones with
Travelcards on them.

I expect Paul Corfield didn't mention travelcards because it is implied.
The original 'Southeastern' problem he is referring to WAS about people
arriving in Zone 1 with travelcards which were not valid there.

OEPs are completely irrelevant when there is no travelcard involved - as in
your own reported journey.

Paul S

On 12/03/2011 10:08, solar penguin wrote:


Paul Scott wrote:
"solar wrote in message
...

Are you sure about that? I've used Oyster PAYG between Sydenham Hill
and Victoria several times, and never had any problems at all.


And that's using PAYG in combination with a travelcard - if so for which
zones?


No Travelcard. But that doesn't matter because the original poster
didn't mention anything at all about Travelcards.

Oyster Extension Permits are only needed with Travelcards!

--
Arthur Figgis! Surrey, UK!

On Mar 12, 10:08*am, solar penguin wrote:

Paul Scott wrote:

"solar penguin" wrote:

Are you sure about that? *I've used Oyster PAYG between Sydenham Hill
and Victoria several times, and never had any problems at all.

And that's using PAYG in combination with a travelcard - if so for which
zones?

No Travelcard. *But that doesn't matter because the original poster
didn't mention anything at all about Travelcards.

In the bit you deliberately snipped he said, "South Eastern seem to be
the main culprits. I read something last night that suggested they had
programmed their gates to reject Oyster cards
when OEPs were not set."

As stated, that seems to apply to normal Oysters as well as ones with
Travelcards on them.

OEPs only have any meaning in relation to a Travelcard loaded on an
Oyster card, end of. (You can set an OEP on an Oyster when using it
purely in 'PAYG mode', but it doesn't mean anything.)

On Mar 12, 8:52*pm, solar penguin wrote:
Given how many faulty Oyster readers there are out there, that's the
most likely explanation. *There's one reader at Gipsy Hill that reads
the card and opens the barrier to let you out, no problems, but
sometimes doesn't always manage to write to tell the card that the
journey's been completed! *Three times it given me an Unresolved
Journey because of that! *I've tried telling the station man about it,
but he doesn't believe and/or understand it!

FWIW, nor do I. If the light's gone green and the barrier's opened, I
don't think it's *possible* for the system to leave your journey
unresolved.

_That's_ why Oyster is a real con. *It promises you "Sacrifice your
privacy and you'll be rewarded with cheap offpeak fares that you used
to get on paper anyway," but then it doesn't always keep its side of
the bargain and give us those cheap fares! *You don't need additional
conspiracy theories about SouthEastern and OEPs, when the basic
concept of Oyster is already such a nightmare!

Except that the basic concept of Oyster as on buses, LU, LO, Tramlink
and DLR is completely unproblematic - the only issue is the way in
which the TOCs have implemented it (slowly, grudgingly, on a
ridiculous fare-scale and with ridiculous extra rules like OEPs).

The sooner paper offpeak cheap day returns are restored within the
London area, the better!

They'll cost four shillings and six each, I believe. And you'll get to
ride on slamdoor mk1 stock powered by steam.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Mar 12, 12:45*pm, john b wrote:
On Mar 12, 8:52*pm, solar penguin wrote:

Given how many faulty Oyster readers there are out there, that's the
most likely explanation. *There's one reader at Gipsy Hill that reads
the card and opens the barrier to let you out, no problems, but
sometimes doesn't always manage to write to tell the card that the
journey's been completed! *Three times it given me an Unresolved
Journey because of that! *I've tried telling the station man about it,
but he doesn't believe and/or understand it!

FWIW, nor do I. If the light's gone green and the barrier's opened, I
don't think it's *possible* for the system to leave your journey
unresolved.


--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

John - it is perfectly possible. The gate / validator, station
computer and hence the central system record the exit (or entry -
equally possible) but the exit (or entry) is not written to the card.
It happens from time to time.