In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 08:36:38 on Thu, 14
Apr 2011, d remarked:

He got very huffy because my bike was in the doorway which he wanted
to open the doors from at Putney, starting as the train left
Wandsworth Town (where he had used another doorway), long before he
needed to get me out of my seat to move it. He was very unpleasant
about it. Taking a bike on slow trains from Vauxhall to Putney is a
bit of a pain because the side the doors open on keeps changing from
one station to the next. There are bike spaces in class 450 trains
with tip-up seats but even well into the evening or mid-afternoon you
try shifting someone sitting in one of them.

Having had the misfortune of clambouring past a couple of his-n-hers
bikes blocking a doorway on a cambridge service recently I can rather
share his frustration. If you're going to take a bike on a commuter
train take a fold-up. Large suitcases are bad enough but a bike with
dirty wheel and a greasy chain getting in your way is just taking
the ****.

Colin's miffed because he would claim that he's a good guy and will
get out of his seat and move the bike on approach to a station
where it's now in the doorway on the platform side.

Indeed.It's a right pain on the 09:20 from Cambridge to King's Cross since
they added the Royston and Letchworth stops.

But many people are not as considerate, and if the vestibule was
full of standing passengers, then neither of his actions would be
very easy.

In such cases I always stand with the bike anyway.

He might even claim that if the train was that full he'd not try to
park the bike in such a vestibule - I'm not sure.

in class 450s I try to get in the marked bike space but passengers don't
usually agree.

But in the race-to-the-bottom which characterises so much of modern
life, the guard can't assume anyone will act the good guy. Indeed,
on one of my most recent trips someone parked a disabled scooter in
a dorway and then went and hid, leaving a substantial obstacle in
the way of both passengers and their luggage.

Later in the same trip, after the scooter had gone, a lycra-clad
cyclist had to literally force his way onto the train it was that
crowded.

Not a problem on King's Cross trains though I try to get to the station
early to get the bike out of the way before the crowds if any arrive.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 04:59:25
on Thu, 14 Apr 2011, remarked:
But many people are not as considerate, and if the vestibule was
full of standing passengers, then neither of his actions would be
very easy.

In such cases I always stand with the bike anyway.

He might even claim that if the train was that full he'd not try to
park the bike in such a vestibule - I'm not sure.

in class 450s I try to get in the marked bike space but passengers don't
usually agree.

But in the race-to-the-bottom which characterises so much of modern
life, the guard can't assume anyone will act the good guy. Indeed,
on one of my most recent trips someone parked a disabled scooter in
a dorway and then went and hid, leaving a substantial obstacle in
the way of both passengers and their luggage.

Later in the same trip, after the scooter had gone, a lycra-clad
cyclist had to literally force his way onto the train it was that
crowded.

Not a problem on King's Cross trains though I try to get to the station
early to get the bike out of the way before the crowds if any arrive.

As with many other aspects of life, people don't wear convenient white
and black hats. As a result the authorities are forced to impose rules
and conditions which are at best suitable for those with dark-grey hats.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 04:59:25 -0500,
wrote:
in class 450s I try to get in the marked bike space but passengers
don't
usually agree.

IMO tip-up seats in these areas are a bad idea. People like to sit
there; better to keep it as standing space.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:17:22 +0200
Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 04:59:25 -0500,
wrote:
in class 450s I try to get in the marked bike space but passengers
don't
usually agree.

IMO tip-up seats in these areas are a bad idea. People like to sit
there; better to keep it as standing space.

I agree , ditch those daft flip up seats - and fit proper seats instead.
Commuter trains are for transporting people, not equipment. If someone can't
fit their bike in thats just tough ****. People don't expect to fit a
non folding bike on a bus so why should they expect to fit one on a train?

B2003

In article , d ()
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:17:22 +0200
Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 04:59:25 -0500,
wrote:
in class 450s I try to get in the marked bike space but passengers
don't usually agree.

IMO tip-up seats in these areas are a bad idea. People like to sit
there; better to keep it as standing space.

I agree , ditch those daft flip up seats - and fit proper seats instead.
Commuter trains are for transporting people, not equipment. If
someone can't fit their bike in thats just tough ****. People don't
expect to fit a non folding bike on a bus so why should they expect
to fit one on a train?

And where would people in wheelchairs go? Or would you ban them from
trains too? Even commuter trains aren't just for sardines.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 04:10:18 -0500
wrote:
I agree , ditch those daft flip up seats - and fit proper seats instead.
Commuter trains are for transporting people, not equipment. If
someone can't fit their bike in thats just tough ****. People don't
expect to fit a non folding bike on a bus so why should they expect
to fit one on a train?

And where would people in wheelchairs go? Or would you ban them from
trains too? Even commuter trains aren't just for sardines.

Well most stations arn't wheelchair accessable anyway so its a moot point and
I'm sorry if someone is in a chair but public transport is not really for
them. The majority has to take precendence I'm afraid. There is something
called dial-a-ride you know. The recent move to make tube trains wheelchair
friendly is just idiotic pandering to political correctness.

B2003

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:15:46 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:
them. The majority has to take precendence I'm afraid. There is
something
called dial-a-ride you know.

What kind of dial-a-ride offers long distance travel, then?

The space is not wasted on a busy train anyway - it can otherwise be
used for standing passengers. On a quiet train, bicycles or prams.
It's just tip up seats that work badly, as people choose to sit there
for legroom. It really needs to be a place occupied as last resort
to keep it free, so standing space seems an ideal choice.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

In article ,
d wrote:
Well most stations arn't wheelchair accessable anyway so its a moot point and
I'm sorry if someone is in a chair but public transport is not really for
them. The majority has to take precendence I'm afraid. There is something
called dial-a-ride you know.

Have you ever spoken to someone who relies on dial-a-ride or seen
the page about it on the TFL website? You keep on talking about
it, but the service is pretty poor for anything time-critical. It
couldn't replace /any/ of the journeys I have made by Tube this
year, for example.

The recent move to make tube trains wheelchair
friendly is just idiotic pandering to political correctness.

Rubbish. The aim is to make it incrementally more accessible to
more people - not just wheelchair users - what's wrong with that?

--
Mike Bristow

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:21:42 +0100
Mike Bristow wrote:
Have you ever spoken to someone who relies on dial-a-ride or seen
the page about it on the TFL website? You keep on talking about
it, but the service is pretty poor for anything time-critical. It
couldn't replace /any/ of the journeys I have made by Tube this
year, for example.

Why not? If something is time critical using the tube is a bad idea for
anyone, wheelchair bound or not, as it simply can't be relied on. For example
I never use public transport when going to an airport. Coming back from one
to go home is another matter since it doesn't matter if I'm delayed then.

The recent move to make tube trains wheelchair
friendly is just idiotic pandering to political correctness.

Rubbish. The aim is to make it incrementally more accessible to
more people - not just wheelchair users - what's wrong with that?

Because wheelchairs are an obstruction in confined spaces and could
potentially be highly dangerous if a fast evacuation is required in a tunnel.
And who is going to carry you out? Would you rely on the goodwill of other
passengers? Aside from that most tube stations arn't wheelchair accessable
and spending a billion on making them so for the tiny minority of people
who'd take advantage of it is a waste of public money.

B2003

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:54:58 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:
I agree , ditch those daft flip up seats - and fit proper seats
instead.
Commuter trains are for transporting people, not equipment. If
someone can't
fit their bike in thats just tough ****. People don't expect to fit
a
non folding bike on a bus so why should they expect to fit one on a
train?

The space is required for wheelchairs anyway. I assume you do not
propose to ban those.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK