In message , at 17:49:58 on Sun, 5 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:

Many events do start at 9 am. This will require arrivals at mainline London
stations about 8.00.

Which means departures from much of the country at 6am... and
unavailable departures before that from the rest.

I don't understand this "night" peak.

AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if
all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than
250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem?

Because many Intercity routes shut down too early. On the ECML, the last
train to Newcastle is 10pm, and the next and last train (also serving
intermediate stations of course) is 11.30pm to Leeds.

People trying to get to those trains from an event typically finishing
at 10pm in the Olympic Park would miss the Newcastle one and all be
shoehorned on the Leeds one.

I'm sure the timings are similar for many other routes, which will often
be further from the Park than Kings Cross.

The railways have another solution (on top of the extra late trains) -
make tickets transferable to the morning of the next day. What I haven't
seen is any idea where those passengers will spend the night.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...

In message , at 17:49:58 on Sun, 5 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:

Many events do start at 9 am. This will require arrivals at mainline
London
stations about 8.00.

Which means departures from much of the country at 6am... and
unavailable departures before that from the rest.

I don't understand this "night" peak.

AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if
all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than
250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem?

Because many Intercity routes shut down too early. On the ECML, the last
train to Newcastle is 10pm, and the next and last train (also serving
intermediate stations of course) is 11.30pm to Leeds.

People trying to get to those trains from an event typically finishing
at 10pm in the Olympic Park would miss the Newcastle one and all be
shoehorned on the Leeds one.

I'm sure the timings are similar for many other routes, which will often
be further from the Park than Kings Cross.

The railways have another solution (on top of the extra late trains) -
make tickets transferable to the morning of the next day. What I haven't
seen is any idea where those passengers will spend the night.
--
Roland Perry


If I can add some experience from the Sydney Olympics. Before the event
there was widespread alarm about the disruption. However things worked out
rather well, if fact people now look back on that period with fondness.
Trains ran on time and everything worked. The effort put in to make it work
was enormous and the city has never recovered- so much was spent that 10
years later we are still suffering from the money spend on those 14 days.

I expect London and the Organising committee will do just as good a job.
There was very little disruption because double or three times the transport
that was needed was provided, and peak hours services (trains and bus) ran
24 hrs per day for the games period.
Yes I think late night services will be organised, as someone mentioned a
lot of events finish late, 10 to 11pm and people are not ready to go home so
eating venues and party venues are just commencing. (hence the 24 hrs
services). The city will really become a 24 hr city and in Sydney it not
unusual to see peak hour crowds at 3 am.
A lot of business did close down for the period and school holidays were
rearranged to coincide, we even had daylight saving (in our winter) to help
with the safe movement of people.

Have a fun games.

Peter
Sydney

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:49:58 on Sun, 5 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:

Many events do start at 9 am. This will require arrivals at mainline
London
stations about 8.00.

Which means departures from much of the country at 6am... and unavailable
departures before that from the rest.

I don't understand this "night" peak.

AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if
all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than
250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem?

Because many Intercity routes shut down too early.

Oh I see the need for extra trains.

It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see!

It just a later last train as is normal on New Year's eve. No-one calls
that a third peak.

tim

In message , at 13:21:40 on Mon, 6 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:
I don't understand this "night" peak.

AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even if
all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than
250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem?

Because many Intercity routes shut down too early.

Oh I see the need for extra trains.

It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see!

It's because everyone will be leaving the Olympic venues at pretty much
the same time, creating a genuine "peak" flow at about 11pm, it having
been quiet since maybe 8pm.

It just a later last train as is normal on New Year's eve. No-one calls
that a third peak.

I hope it's more than just one extra train! For one thing, as in my
examples up thread, they need to be taking people further from London
than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I recall when the last
train home to Westbury from Paddington was a party-pooping 8.30pm, which
isn't so much an issue of Westbury's distance from London (approx 80
minutes) but because it was going to Plymouth and was expected to turn
into a pumpkin at midnight.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:21:40 on Mon, 6 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:
I don't understand this "night" peak.

AIUI about 6 million people create the normal London peak flows. Even
if
all of the Olympic venues finish late it isn't going to be more than
250,000, a fraction of the normal peak so why's it a problem?

Because many Intercity routes shut down too early.

Oh I see the need for extra trains.

It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see!

It's because everyone will be leaving the Olympic venues at pretty much
the same time, creating a genuine "peak" flow at about 11pm, it having
been quiet since maybe 8pm.

It just a later last train as is normal on New Year's eve. No-one calls
that a third peak.

I hope it's more than just one extra train!

It will probably be one per "end of line". Is that what you meant?

For one thing, as in my examples up thread, they need to be taking people
further from London than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I
recall when the last train home to Westbury from Paddington was a
party-pooping 8.30pm,

It still is.

Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a
main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no
trains at all!

Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol

In message , at 18:12:52 on Mon, 6 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:
I hope it's more than just one extra train!

It will probably be one per "end of line". Is that what you meant?

No, I don't think one train, late enough for the stragglers, will be
good enough for the majority of midnight travellers.

The timetable has apparently been "released" but is not public. When we
can see it, then these questions will be answered.

For one thing, as in my examples up thread, they need to be taking people
further from London than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I
recall when the last train home to Westbury from Paddington was a
party-pooping 8.30pm,

It still is.

Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a
main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no
trains at all!

And which therefore use Westbury as a railhead. (I used to drive there
from Frome, for example).

Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol

The 20.35 is listed as the last train to Plymouth, the last to Taunton
and Exeter is 21.45 (I'm ignoring the sleeper).
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 18:12:52 on Mon, 6 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:
I hope it's more than just one extra train!

It will probably be one per "end of line". Is that what you meant?

No, I don't think one train, late enough for the stragglers, will be good
enough for the majority of midnight travellers.

I think that's all most routes are going to get :-(


The timetable has apparently been "released" but is not public. When we
can see it, then these questions will be answered.

For one thing, as in my examples up thread, they need to be taking
people
further from London than is traditional on a train starting at 9pm+ (I
recall when the last train home to Westbury from Paddington was a
party-pooping 8.30pm,

It still is.

Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a
main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no
trains at all!

And which therefore use Westbury as a railhead. (I used to drive there
from Frome, for example).

And can equally use Bath as a railhead


Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol

The 20.35 is listed as the last train to Plymouth, the last to Taunton and
Exeter is 21.45 (I'm ignoring the sleeper).

Why? What wrong with the sleeper?

tim

In message , at 13:34:53 on Tue, 7 Jun
2011, tim.... remarked:
Westbury is a poor example. It's a tiny place that just happens to have a
main line next to it. There are bigger places in the area that get no
trains at all!

And which therefore use Westbury as a railhead. (I used to drive there
from Frome, for example).

And can equally use Bath as a railhead

In the general case - you have to be kidding! Dreadful journey, twice as
far, horrible parking. For the Olympics, maybe people willing to drive
for half an hour at 1.30am could use Bath instead.

Places West of Westbury are served by later trains running via Bristol

The 20.35 is listed as the last train to Plymouth, the last to Taunton and
Exeter is 21.45 (I'm ignoring the sleeper).

Why? What wrong with the sleeper?

Because there are a very limited number of sleeper routes (and sleeper
capacity), and so you can't rely on a sleeper train to mop up all the
late stragglers from the Olympics. You need other trains too.
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland Perry
wrote:
It's any justification in calling it a "peak" flow that I can't see!
It's because everyone will be leaving the Olympic venues at pretty much
the same time, creating a genuine "peak" flow at about 11pm, it having
been quiet since maybe 8pm.

In the 1910s and 1920s there was a similar late-night "peak" after the
theatres finished. There were even special services (e.g. Aldwych to
Finsbury Park).

--
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