On Jun 15, 10:55*am, CJB wrote:
On Jun 15, 10:42*am, Paul wrote:





On Jun 15, 10:29*am, CJB wrote:

Suspect a stroke? Act FAST call 999. Stroke is a Medical Emergency

Face - Arm - Speech - Test = paramedics NOW!!

This has been drilled into me from 1st Aid. However it seems that TfL
haven't trained its staff in FAST.

Last night I was on the Circle Line at Paddington on platform 2.
Suddenly an elderly lady gets off my train and then kind of faints and
asks to sit down. We find the nearest barrier railings - getting her
to a seat is not an option. She is accompanied by her equally elderly
husband. They appear to be American tourists. She could hardly speak.
Bad signs.

Everyone else walks by as usual.

I went to the Underground gateline to request assistance. One of the
staff ambles back to the platform with me - not really with any sense
of urgency.

We reach the lady, and he then disappears to get the Station Manager.
Eventually the latter turns up and asks if she wants any water, but
that they don't actually have any nearby. He dithers - obviously not
really knowing or trained what to do.

It is obvious that none of the staff there have been trained in FAST.

After about 5 minutes - and seeing that she is becoming stressed and
on the point of fainting again - with trains and arriving and
departing - the SM suggests that she waits in a store room. He and her
husband then help her to limp to the room in an alcove. The SM unlocks
the door and inside is a high table for her to sit on (no chairs?). No
aircon - no fresh air. I suggest that paramedics be called. He ignores
me - with the arrogance of "he's in charge." He then goes inside with
her and her husband and locks the door!!

I waited outside because I was not happy with his treatment of her.
After a further 5 minutes he comes out and I said to him either you
call the paramedics or I do. He told me to mind my own business. It
was quite obvious that he had no training in medical emergencies
especially FAST. God help Paddington if ever there is a real
emergency. But this was a potential one.

He went back inside the room, and locked the door again. This was not
good because one of the things anyone feeling faint needs is fresh air
- not stale air in a claustrophobic storage room.

Since it was obvious the SM had no medical training in FAST I called
999. A paramedic arrived within 5 minutes. It was as well I waited on
the platform for him, because he would never have found the storage
room by himself.

He went in, and presumably she was treated for whatever. I hope she is
OK.

But the attitude of the Station Manager was appalling. It seems that
TfL staff are not trained in FAST, and staff do not have access to
water for passengers taken ill. They also seem reluctant to call the
paramedics.

Quite appalling.

I then called

heA(at the entrance).

Elderly Lady Faints and is then locked in a Store Room by Station
Manager

Absolutely disgraceful uncaring treatment by station staff incl. the
station duty manager.

Paddington Underground - Platform 2 - Circle Line - 8.00pm

Elderly lady - an Amercian tourist tourist almost collapses on the
platform. Two other

tourists get her to sit down.

Station staff summonsed. They take their time

Station manager puts her in a srorage room to sit on a high table, and
then closes the

door and locks it.

Called 999 for medics.

This is not acceptable, especially after the inquest to the 7th July
attacks. *If staff cannot cope with an incident of this nature, what
are they going to do if there is a repeat of 7/7, or during the
Olympics?

Do you plan to take this up with LUL? I think it would be worth doing
so.

Ignoring the misposted bits at the end (sorry about that).

Yes I have made a formal complaint to TfL; also I've written to the
Evening Standard - as I said God help us if there is a real emergency
- certainly the staff at Paddington are simply not prepared nor
apparently trained for medical emergencies; and I've emailed the
Stroke Association.

It may also be worth sending a letter to the London Ambulance service,
stating your concerns and requesting that if they agree with them they
should contact TfL themselves. (Obviously they can't disclose to you
the outcome, but they can check with their paramedic whether he agrees
with your assessment)

Ignoring the misposted bits at the end (sorry about that).

Yes I have made a formal complaint to TfL; also I've written to the
Evening Standard - as I said God help us if there is a real emergency
- certainly the staff at Paddington are simply not prepared nor
apparently trained for medical emergencies; and I've emailed the
Stroke Association.

It may also be worth sending a letter to the London Ambulance service,
stating your concerns and requesting that if they agree with them they
should contact TfL themselves. (Obviously they can't disclose to you
the outcome, but they can check with their paramedic whether he agrees
with your assessment)


Well done to the OP for doing something re this casualty, and I'd do
just the same thing in similar circumstances. I cannot think anyone
would criticise anyone for doing the same.

It would be a good idea to take this further and try to get the
ambulance service to talk to the railway re training their staff 'else
another day and same circumstances;(..

Why didn't the station staff just call an ambulance anyway?, after all
there're the ones to handle this and its puts the station management and
staff in the clear anyway?..

How very odd;?...

--
Tony Sayer

On Jun 15, 1:48*pm, tony sayer wrote:
Ignoring the misposted bits at the end (sorry about that).

Yes I have made a formal complaint to TfL; also I've written to the
Evening Standard - as I said God help us if there is a real emergency
- certainly the staff at Paddington are simply not prepared nor
apparently trained for medical emergencies; and I've emailed the
Stroke Association.

It may also be worth sending a letter to the London Ambulance service,
stating your concerns and requesting that if they agree with them they
should contact TfL themselves. (Obviously they can't disclose to you
the outcome, but they can check with their paramedic whether he agrees
with your assessment)

Well done to the OP for doing something re this casualty, and I'd do
just the same thing in similar circumstances. I cannot think anyone
would criticise anyone for doing the same.

It would be a good idea to take this further and try to get the
ambulance service to talk to the railway re training their staff 'else
another day and same circumstances;(..

Why didn't the station staff just call an ambulance anyway?, after all
there're the ones to handle this and its puts the station management and
staff in the clear anyway?..

How very odd;?...

--
Tony Sayer

Is it really that odd? As with the F.C.C. St Albans staff did nothing
to help (what turned out to be a fre dodger faking it in the end - but
thats NOT the point) an ill person story, just where do WE all fit in
to this sort of incident.

I am NOT "HEAT" trained other than from TV vieiwing and I am not first
aid trained. What I am very experienced in is speaking to the
emergency services on behalf of people who for a number of reasons
don't want to.

Throughout the whole of my career I have fielded calls from station
staff, Drivers direct, drivers via signallers (because the signaller
did not want to do it?) conductors and others. These have beenn a
fairly even mix of calls for police and ambuilances.

So the call goes along the lines of - you need to call then yourself -
you have all the answers they will ask you - the reply the driver has
rung off or if I am lucky the person is on the phone to me with the
ill person.

How old ? Male / Female ? nature of problem ? (Don;t know is a
frequent answer) age? Concious ? breathing ? anybody with her to know
if there is a medical history?

So I ring 999 and often have to expalin that whilst they can see I am
rining from central London I need to an ambulance for Ramsgate /
Peterborough / Downham Market or Warblington (All genuine cals I have
made over time).

Dealing with somebody suffering from trauma is NOT an everyday
experience for the vast majority of the population, in fact it is down
right scary to the point that the person dealing with it can become
traumatised themselves. Watching somebody suffering a severe heart
attack and relaying the information can and does render people
speechless. I had to console a guard who watched a woman die in these
circumstances and he was a complete gibbering wreck. When I am asked
to call 999 on someone elses behalf I will always check quickly why
they are not doing it, often they say that they have never done it
before and will then do so, if not I then crack on myself as I will
not waste time.

It's a funny old world because often the complete opposite has
happened and we get multiple calls to ask if there is a major incident
at xx or yy because the ambulance service is inundated with calls from
a train of a pssenger collapsed (etc).

I am not trying to stick up for any wrongdoings here and if staff have
been less than efficient in circumstances as described by CJB they
need to be addressed, just raising the point that not everybody knows
what do in general. Obviously if you have had training in first aid
you mix with and discuss with like minded people and it becomes part
of the "norm" but what percentage of people are first aid trained or
"HEAT" trained and what expectaion should we have that if I go to, say
the cinema, or a restaraunt, that any of the staff there are HEAT
trained?

Will be intersesting to see if Mr Murray is sent on an errand !

Richard

In article
s.com, Fat richard scribeth thus
On Jun 15, 1:48*pm, tony sayer wrote:
Ignoring the misposted bits at the end (sorry about that).

Yes I have made a formal complaint to TfL; also I've written to the
Evening Standard - as I said God help us if there is a real emergency
- certainly the staff at Paddington are simply not prepared nor
apparently trained for medical emergencies; and I've emailed the
Stroke Association.

It may also be worth sending a letter to the London Ambulance service,
stating your concerns and requesting that if they agree with them they
should contact TfL themselves. (Obviously they can't disclose to you
the outcome, but they can check with their paramedic whether he agrees
with your assessment)

Well done to the OP for doing something re this casualty, and I'd do
just the same thing in similar circumstances. I cannot think anyone
would criticise anyone for doing the same.

It would be a good idea to take this further and try to get the
ambulance service to talk to the railway re training their staff 'else
another day and same circumstances;(..

Why didn't the station staff just call an ambulance anyway?, after all
there're the ones to handle this and its puts the station management and
staff in the clear anyway?..

How very odd;?...

Sniped

I am not trying to stick up for any wrongdoings here and if staff have
been less than efficient in circumstances as described by CJB they
need to be addressed, just raising the point that not everybody knows
what do in general. Obviously if you have had training in first aid
you mix with and discuss with like minded people and it becomes part
of the "norm" but what percentage of people are first aid trained or
"HEAT" trained and what expectaion should we have that if I go to, say
the cinema, or a restaraunt, that any of the staff there are HEAT
trained?

Will be intersesting to see if Mr Murray is sent on an errand !

Richard

Well it seems to me in this instance that they would be putting
themselves in the clear of any blame and cover their backsides by
passing his onto the emergency services .. well that would have been
what I would have done in those circumstances course as you say some
aren't that accustomed to dealing with such incidents etc...
--
Tony Sayer

cjb, couldn't you have called 999 at the very start of the incident? I
don't remember if mobiles work from the Underground. But I would like to
know exactly what to do if I'm involved in something like this (I've had
to call 911 numerous times; it's the first thing I think when I see an
accident.)