Morning all,

There is an idea that trains could run from the Thameslink core to
Cambridge, or at least on to some part of the Great Northern route, via a
junction just north of St Pancras Low Level.

What is the status of this idea? Is it a definite part of the Thameslink
masterplan? Has it been scrapped? Was it never more than conjecture? Have
i dreamed it up?

In particular, i remember some work being done towards it as part of the
CTRL 2 works at St Pancras - a short section of tunnel under the CTRL/NLL
spaghetti junction, facing SPILL at one end and the GN at the other. Does
that exist, or is this another flight of fancy on my part?

Cheers,
tom

--
Axaxaxas Mlo

In message i, at
11:19:09 on Sat, 16 Jul 2011, Tom Anderson
remarked:
There is an idea that trains could run from the Thameslink core to
Cambridge, or at least on to some part of the Great Northern route, via
a junction just north of St Pancras Low Level.

What is the status of this idea? Is it a definite part of the
Thameslink masterplan? Has it been scrapped? Was it never more than
conjecture? Have i dreamed it up?

In particular, i remember some work being done towards it as part of
the CTRL 2 works at St Pancras - a short section of tunnel under the
CTRL/NLL spaghetti junction, facing SPILL at one end and the GN at the
other. Does that exist, or is this another flight of fancy on my part?

Yes, the tunnel exists (but no track yet). I think the plan is to
increase the number of trains terminating at Welwyn Garden City and send
all of those through Thameslink, then send the slower half of the
Peterborough and Cambridge trains through as well. The remainder would
continue to use Kings Cross.
--
Roland Perry

On Jul 16, 11:19*am, Tom Anderson wrote:

Morning all,

There is an idea that trains could run from the Thameslink core to
Cambridge, or at least on to some part of the Great Northern route, via a
junction just north of St Pancras Low Level.

What is the status of this idea? Is it a definite part of the Thameslink
masterplan? Has it been scrapped? Was it never more than conjecture? Have
i dreamed it up?

In particular, i remember some work being done towards it as part of the
CTRL 2 works at St Pancras - a short section of tunnel under the CTRL/NLL
spaghetti junction, facing SPILL at one end and the GN at the other. Does
that exist, or is this another flight of fancy on my part?

Tunnels (plural) exist - you can see them from the far north end of
the low-level Thameslink platforms at St Pancras. The bored tunnels
become a cut-and-cover tunnel which then surfaces on the western side
of the GN/ECML - you can just about catch a glimpse of the portal from
passing trains on the GN/ECML or indeed from up on the CTRL, but you
kinda need to know what you're looking for. It's also vaguely visible
from York Way (the road) - where you're almost on the top of the
portal - but it's rather concealed and again you really need to know
what you're looking at (Bing Maps Bird's Eye view is useful here).
Perfect day to go and have a look I reckon.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 11:19:09 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

There is an idea that trains could run from the Thameslink core to
Cambridge, or at least on to some part of the Great Northern route, via
a junction just north of St Pancras Low Level.

More than an idea.

What is the status of this idea? Is it a definite part of the Thameslink
masterplan?

Yes it is part of Thameslink 3,100,125 (sorry couldn't resist)

Has it been scrapped? Was it never more than conjecture? Have
i dreamed it up?

Not scrapped, it is more than conjecture.

So do we have a date for when services might run? Re-reading the Wikipedia
page, i see that they list the St Pancras works under KO2 [1]:

New permanent way (track level, in this case including both plain rail
and junctions) and overhead line equipment will be laid out in the new
Canal Tunnels just north of St Pancras between the Thameslink route and
the East Coast Main Line,[32] thereby opening up the Thameslink network
to new destinations north of Central London.

Which should finish in 2018. Would we expect service patterns to change
immediately?

Anyway, thanks for the responses, gents.

tom

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamesl...282013-2018.29

--
Anyone posting to usenet gives the entire world the opportunity to comment
on them. The smart people try to post something smart. -- Arne Valhoj

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
th.li...

Which should finish in 2018. Would we expect service patterns to change
immediately?

The most up to date info is in the draft London and South East RUS - which
amongst other info about the ECML and Kings Cross services gives the
Thameslink GN side as 8 tph, of which:

2 tph 12 car Peterborough
2 tph 12 car Cambridge
4 tph 8 car Welwyn GC

all from 2018

Paul S

On Jul 16, 9:59*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message

th.li...

Which should finish in 2018. Would we expect service patterns to change
immediately?

The most up to date info is in the draft London and South East RUS - which
amongst other info about the ECML and Kings Cross services gives the
Thameslink GN side as 8 tph, of which:

2 tph 12 car Peterborough
2 tph 12 car Cambridge
4 tph 8 car Welwyn GC

all from 2018

To where will the Northern City trains run, post Thameslink.

On Jul 16, 6:30*pm, 1506 wrote:
On Jul 16, 9:59*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:



"Tom Anderson" wrote in message

rth.li...

Which should finish in 2018. Would we expect service patterns to change
immediately?

The most up to date info is in the draft London and South East RUS - which
amongst other info about the ECML and Kings Cross services gives the
Thameslink GN side as 8 tph, of which:

2 tph 12 car Peterborough
2 tph 12 car Cambridge
4 tph 8 car Welwyn GC

all from 2018

To where will the Northern City trains run, post Thameslink.

Moorgate as they can't go anywhere else.

)

--
Nick

"1506" wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 9:59 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
The most up to date info is in the draft London and South East RUS -
which
amongst other info about the ECML and Kings Cross services gives the
Thameslink GN side as 8 tph, of which:

2 tph 12 car Peterborough
2 tph 12 car Cambridge
4 tph 8 car Welwyn GC

all from 2018

To where will the Northern City trains run, post Thameslink.

10 of 12 tph will be from the Hertford Loop:

"Following completion of the Thameslink
Programme it is likely that the current peak
service into Moorgate will remain 12 trains per
hour as today. However, several of the existing
Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate/London
King's Cross services are anticipated as being
re-routed through the Thameslink core. Capacity
is therefore freed up on the branch, enabling a
frequency increase to 10 trains per hour on the
Hertford Loop."

Paul S

On Jul 16, 11:38*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"1506" wrote in message

...

On Jul 16, 9:59 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
The most up to date info is in the draft London and South East RUS -
which
amongst other info about the ECML and Kings Cross services gives the
Thameslink GN side as 8 tph, of which:

2 tph 12 car Peterborough
2 tph 12 car Cambridge
4 tph 8 car Welwyn GC

all from 2018

To where will the Northern City trains run, post Thameslink.

10 of 12 tph will be from the Hertford Loop:

"Following completion of the Thameslink
Programme it is likely that the current peak
service into Moorgate will remain 12 trains per
hour as today. However, several of the existing
Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate/London
King's Cross services are anticipated as being
re-routed through the Thameslink core. Capacity
is therefore freed up on the branch, enabling a
frequency increase to 10 trains per hour on the
Hertford Loop."

Thank you. Does that mean at times (Monday - Friday) the Hertford
loop will be served exclusively from Moorgate?

On Jul 16, 6:30*pm, 1506 wrote:
On Jul 16, 9:59*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:



"Tom Anderson" wrote in message

rth.li...

Which should finish in 2018. Would we expect service patterns to change
immediately?

The most up to date info is in the draft London and South East RUS - which
amongst other info about the ECML and Kings Cross services gives the
Thameslink GN side as 8 tph, of which:

2 tph 12 car Peterborough
2 tph 12 car Cambridge
4 tph 8 car Welwyn GC

all from 2018

To where will the Northern City trains run, post Thameslink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


If it the case that all (or most) Moorgate trains will be Hertford
Loop ones, (with WGC services going to Thameslink), I guess it could
be because they would conveniently use the up 'goods' line from
Alexandra P to F Pk which is planned to be converted for passenger
trains use to provide extra capacity. With the upgraded track being
on W side of current USL, presumably Hertford Loop trains would be
able run from Alexandra P to N City branch without any conflict with
ECML/WGC trains.