"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

My point is that I'd expect all the legacy stock (on Cambridge-London) to
be going. Some may remain on Moorgate-Letchworth.

What they said:

5.13.6 Following the completion of the Thameslink
Programme the following morning peak train service
(14 trains per hour) is anticipated as remaining in
operation into London King's Cross:

Cambridge stopping services, via WGC
- two x eight-car trains operated by Class 377
stock (maximum acceleration is particularly
important on this service group, given the
need for calls at Welwyn North)

Peterborough fast services
- two x 12-car trains operated by Class 365
stock

[The other 10 services are 2 x Kings Lynn IEP and 8 x long distance.]

I'm surprised by that mention of 377s though, didn't see that coming...

Paul S

In message , at 07:17:26
on Mon, 1 Aug 2011, remarked:

What do you know about class 313 replacement stock?

I'm not following things that closely.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:26:02 on
Mon, 1 Aug 2011, Paul Scott remarked:
What they said:

5.13.6 Following the completion of the Thameslink
Programme the following morning peak train service
(14 trains per hour) is anticipated as remaining in
operation into London King's Cross:

Cambridge stopping services, via WGC
- two x eight-car trains operated by Class 377
stock (maximum acceleration is particularly
important on this service group, given the
need for calls at Welwyn North)

Peterborough fast services
- two x 12-car trains operated by Class 365
stock

[The other 10 services are 2 x Kings Lynn IEP and 8 x long distance.]

So what, if any, Cambridge peak trains will go to Horsham?

And the main question being asked - will both of the off-peak slower
Cambridge trains each hour be going to Horsham? (The two faster ones
expected to be IEP to Kings Cross).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 07:17:26
on Mon, 1 Aug 2011, remarked:

I pointed out that there are two services, Inner and Outer. These are slow
Outers.

And a "slow outer" could still be regarded as a semi-fast.

I'm becoming more convinced that "semi-fast" describes all four
services, and you only look upon them as stoppers because you've got
even better "fast" services from Cambridge.

They are all Outer services all of which skip Inner stops. So stopping at
all the Outer stations is slow in my book.

Only because you are spoilt by the Cambridge Cruisers.

Cruisers went when FCC took over. They are Express services now and they are
quite a bit faster than alternatives.

Same service, different name. They are indeed a little faster, but their
existence has rather spoilt your perception of what's a semi-fast train.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
07:17:26 on Mon, 1 Aug 2011, remarked:

I pointed out that there are two services, Inner and Outer. These are
slow Outers.

And a "slow outer" could still be regarded as a semi-fast.

To you, I suppose.

I'm becoming more convinced that "semi-fast" describes all four
services, and you only look upon them as stoppers because you've got
even better "fast" services from Cambridge.

They are all Outer services all of which skip Inner stops. So stopping
at all the Outer stations is slow in my book.

Only because you are spoilt by the Cambridge Cruisers.

Cruisers went when FCC took over. They are Express services now and they
are quite a bit faster than alternatives.

Same service, different name. They are indeed a little faster, but
their existence has rather spoilt your perception of what's a
semi-fast train.

Uh-oh! They are if anything slower. More trains now call at Royston and/or
Letchworth and end-to-end times are almost never as quick as 45 minutes any
more.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:26:02 on Mon,
1 Aug 2011, Paul Scott remarked:
What they said:

5.13.6 Following the completion of the Thameslink
Programme the following morning peak train service
(14 trains per hour) is anticipated as remaining in
operation into London King's Cross:

Cambridge stopping services, via WGC
- two x eight-car trains operated by Class 377
stock (maximum acceleration is particularly
important on this service group, given the
need for calls at Welwyn North)

Peterborough fast services
- two x 12-car trains operated by Class 365
stock

[The other 10 services are 2 x Kings Lynn IEP and 8 x long distance.]

So what, if any, Cambridge peak trains will go to Horsham?

The two mentioned in the OP that are going through to Horsham via the yet to
open ECML link to St Pancras LL. Those above are going to Kings Cross - ie
the mainline station. What's so difficult about all this?

It seems to me that make 6 trains altogether:
2 x Thameslink, 12 car T/L stock,
2 x Kings Cross 'IEPs' from Kings Lynn via Cambridge,
2 x Kings Cross 'stoppers' from Cambridge.

How that relates to today's service I'll leave to others, but surely the
whole point is that there doesn't need to be a one to one relationship
between what trains happen to run today and what happens in 2018?

Paul S

In message , at 16:54:29 on
Mon, 1 Aug 2011, Paul Scott remarked:

What they said:

5.13.6 Following the completion of the Thameslink
Programme the following morning peak train service
(14 trains per hour) is anticipated as remaining in
operation into London King's Cross:

Cambridge stopping services, via WGC
- two x eight-car trains operated by Class 377
stock (maximum acceleration is particularly
important on this service group, given the
need for calls at Welwyn North)

Peterborough fast services
- two x 12-car trains operated by Class 365
stock

[The other 10 services are 2 x Kings Lynn IEP and 8 x long distance.]

So what, if any, Cambridge peak trains will go to Horsham?

The two mentioned in the OP that are going through to Horsham via the
yet to open ECML link to St Pancras LL. Those above are going to Kings
Cross - ie the mainline station. What's so difficult about all this?

At the moment, peak trains to Cambridge are much more like the normal
timetable, but longer and with a few extra stops. What you seem to be
describing are a couple of extra trains on a different route (from KX
not Horsham).

It's not "difficult", but it's taking a while to tease out the full
picture.

Meanwhile Colin doesn't think that one of the two 12car Horsham trains
off-peak will stop at the Cambridge rural stations (which something
must), nor indeed could does he think they could be described as
"semi-fast".

It seems to me that make 6 trains altogether:
2 x Thameslink, 12 car T/L stock,
2 x Kings Cross 'IEPs' from Kings Lynn via Cambridge,

New question: are both the IEPs going to be running to Kings Lynn, or
only 1tph like today? It seems a big jump from four cars per hour to ten
(assuming this is a 5-car IEP). And will they be adding a second 5-car
IEP unit for the Cambridge-London leg?

2 x Kings Cross 'stoppers' from Cambridge.

How that relates to today's service I'll leave to others, but surely
the whole point is that there doesn't need to be a one to one
relationship between what trains happen to run today and what happens
in 2018?

Agreed.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:45:03
on Mon, 1 Aug 2011, remarked:
Cruisers went when FCC took over. They are Express services now and they
are quite a bit faster than alternatives.

Same service, different name. They are indeed a little faster, but
their existence has rather spoilt your perception of what's a
semi-fast train.

Uh-oh! They are if anything slower.

I meant faster than the semi-fasts.

More trains now call at Royston and/or Letchworth and end-to-end times
are almost never as quick as 45 minutes any more.

And after all that fuss in what, 2001, about chopping a minute off the
end to end time, by upgrading Cambridge-Royston.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
10:45:03 on Mon, 1 Aug 2011, remarked:
Cruisers went when FCC took over. They are Express services now and
they are quite a bit faster than alternatives.

Same service, different name. They are indeed a little faster, but
their existence has rather spoilt your perception of what's a
semi-fast train.

Uh-oh! They are if anything slower.

I meant faster than the semi-fasts.

More trains now call at Royston and/or Letchworth and end-to-end times
are almost never as quick as 45 minutes any more.

And after all that fuss in what, 2001, about chopping a minute off
the end to end time, by upgrading Cambridge-Royston.

The Cambridge-Royston power supply has been upgraded twice since
electrification. At first nothing more than a four car EMU could use it,
then up to 8 cars and now 12 cars. I think the odd loco can now be
accommodated but I could be wrong.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 16:54:29 on
Mon, 1 Aug 2011, Paul Scott remarked:

What they said:

5.13.6 Following the completion of the Thameslink
Programme the following morning peak train service
(14 trains per hour) is anticipated as remaining in
operation into London King's Cross:

Cambridge stopping services, via WGC
- two x eight-car trains operated by Class 377
stock (maximum acceleration is particularly
important on this service group, given the
need for calls at Welwyn North)

Peterborough fast services
- two x 12-car trains operated by Class 365 stock

[The other 10 services are 2 x Kings Lynn IEP and 8 x long distance.]

So what, if any, Cambridge peak trains will go to Horsham?

The two mentioned in the OP that are going through to Horsham via the
yet to open ECML link to St Pancras LL. Those above are going to Kings
Cross - ie the mainline station. What's so difficult about all this?

At the moment, peak trains to Cambridge are much more like the normal
timetable, but longer and with a few extra stops. What you seem to be
describing are a couple of extra trains on a different route (from KX
not Horsham).

It's not "difficult", but it's taking a while to tease out the full
picture.

Meanwhile Colin doesn't think that one of the two 12car Horsham
trains off-peak will stop at the Cambridge rural stations (which
something must), nor indeed could does he think they could be
described as "semi-fast".

The semi-fast description isn't just related to stops at stations between
Royston and Cambridge. It also relates to a larger number of stops between
Stevenage and Hatfield plus Potters Bar.

--
Colin Rosenstiel