I travelled last weekend from Harrow and Wealdstone to Hackney Central via zone 2 changing at Willesden Jn and I was astonished to find that they had charged me £2.70 for it. At Willesden Jn there are no oyster validator machines on the southbound platform on the NR/ tube line. I dont understand why I have been overcharged...

On Aug 24, 12:20*am, yameste wrote:
I travelled last weekend from Harrow and Wealdstone to Hackney
Central via zone 2 changing at Willesden Jn and I was astonished
to find that they had charged me £2.70 for it. At Willesden Jn there
are no oyster validator machines on the southbound platform on the
NR/ tube line. I dont understand why I have been overcharged...

The 'default' fare for Harrow & Wealdstone to Hackney Central is via
zone 1 - this can be seen by checking the TfL single fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...inder/current/

To benefit from the cheaper non-zone 1 fare, you need to touch on a
pink Oyster route validator at Willesden Junction - if you click on
"Alternate fares" on the single fare finder then you'll see this
screen which explains this:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3mbxxq5

At Willesden Junction the pink Oyster route validators are actually
located at the entrances to the high-level North London Line platforms
- I'm pretty sure that one has to pass by them when going from the low-
level platforms (DC line/ Bakerloo) to the high-level platforms,
regardless of whether one goes the old way or the new way.

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Aug 24, 12:20*am, yameste wrote:
I travelled last weekend from Harrow and Wealdstone to Hackney
Central via zone 2 changing at Willesden Jn and I was astonished
to find that they had charged me £2.70 for it. At Willesden Jn there
are no oyster validator machines on the southbound platform on the
NR/ tube line. I dont understand why I have been overcharged...

The 'default' fare for Harrow & Wealdstone to Hackney Central is via
zone 1 - this can be seen by checking the TfL single fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...inder/current/

To benefit from the cheaper non-zone 1 fare, you need to touch on a
pink Oyster route validator at Willesden Junction - if you click on
"Alternate fares" on the single fare finder then you'll see this
screen which explains this: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3mbxxq5

At Willesden Junction the pink Oyster route validators are actually
located at the entrances to the high-level North London Line platforms
- I'm pretty sure that one has to pass by them when going from the low-
level platforms (DC line/ Bakerloo) to the high-level platforms,
regardless of whether one goes the old way or the new way.

No they are not. It is near the Electric lines platforms. I used it some
time back from Highbury and Islington to Putney via Clapham Junction and had
to walk all the way there and back when changing on the NLL platforms. There
is no pink validator on any platform at Willesden Junction. You should have
passed it after leaving the platform on your route though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

When you see its by the electric lines do you mean the DC lines. I was walked from the first carriage of a southbound DC line train to the NLL high level and I couldnt see one.
A few months ago I do remember seeing an oyster validator on the northbound platform. Logically the oyster validator should be before you enter the stairs frmo the DC lines to the NLL. This makes it easier for everyone but I strongly suspect that they sited these validators in suspicous locations because they want to chop (eat) the money so that they can make lots of money !

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:25:56 +0100, yameste
wrote:

When you see its by the electric lines do you mean the DC lines. I was
walked from the first carriage of a southbound DC line train to the NLL
high level and I couldnt see one.
A few months ago I do remember seeing an oyster validator on the
northbound platform. Logically the oyster validator should be before you
enter the stairs frmo the DC lines to the NLL. This makes it easier for
everyone but I strongly suspect that they sited these validators in
suspicous locations because they want to chop (eat) the money so that
they can make lots of money !

There are two Oyster validators in the building which by the DC lines
footbridge at the southern end of the platforms. From this building there
is a passageway which leads to the high level North London Line platforms.
There used to also be at least one on the North London line part of the
station, but I don't recall if this has been moved.

The building concerned is marked by the arrow in this link to Google Maps:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.532185,-0.243703&ll=51.532201,-0.243689&spn=0.001195,0.002798&sll=51.532462,-0.244456&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&num=1&t=h&vpsrc=0& z=19

and there are always people validating when I go past.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On Aug 24, 12:20 am, yameste wrote:
I travelled last weekend from Harrow and Wealdstone to Hackney
Central via zone 2 changing at Willesden Jn and I was astonished
to find that they had charged me £2.70 for it. At Willesden Jn there
are no oyster validator machines on the southbound platform on the
NR/ tube line. I dont understand why I have been overcharged...

The 'default' fare for Harrow & Wealdstone to Hackney Central is via
zone 1 - this can be seen by checking the TfL single fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...inder/current/


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Frankly that makes no sense.

Why would anyone make a journey involving two changes if they could make
one? It's not as if they are avoiding the (relatively) low frequency NLL by
doing so, they've always got to make some of the journey on this line. Nor
are the connections nice, the "wrong" way connection at Oxford Circus is a
longish walk as is the route from the Vic to the ground level platforms at
H&I (or am I confusing this with FP?)

And it can't be "quicker" this way. If it was, the default route from
Willesden to Hackney would be via Z1, but it isn't

tim

"tim...." wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

The 'default' fare for Harrow & Wealdstone to Hackney Central is via
zone 1 - this can be seen by checking the TfL single fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...inder/current/

Frankly that makes no sense.

Why would anyone make a journey involving two changes if they could make
one? It's not as if they are avoiding the (relatively) low frequency NLL
by doing so, they've always got to make some of the journey on this line.
Nor are the connections nice, the "wrong" way connection at Oxford Circus
is a longish walk as is the route from the Vic to the ground level
platforms at H&I (or am I confusing this with FP?)

And it can't be "quicker" this way. If it was, the default route from
Willesden to Hackney would be via Z1, but it isn't.

Yes, I get where you're coming from.

Maybe instead of working on the basis of Bakerloo-Victoria-NLL, the
default fare is instead based on taking a fast train from H&W to Euston,
then Vic line to H&I, then NLL to Hackney? (Though yes, that would
inevitably entail passing through ticket gates in zone 1 twice at Euston NR
& LU.)

Indeed, whilst the NR journey planner suggests travelling via a change at
Willesden Jn and then the NLL for nearly all journeys, the TfL Journey
Planner alternately suggests that route and the fast train to Euston route -
and the latter is shown as being faster at around 45 mins compared to 55
mins for the former.

Thinking aloud, I dare say that 'default fares' are generated by some sort
of routing algorithm, and it takes a bit of human intervention to alter them
(which hasn't happened here)? Given the need to pass through gates in zone 1
if travelling via Euston (which would inevitably mean a via-z1 fare being
charged), I think it'd be fair enough to change the default fare so as to
assume the non-z1 route, i.e. changing at Willesden Jn.

Maybe if the OP raises a ticket with Oyster CS this might possibly get fed
back?

"Mizter T" wrote in message

"tim...." wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

The 'default' fare for Harrow & Wealdstone to Hackney Central is via
zone 1 - this can be seen by checking the TfL single fare finder
he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...inder/current/

Frankly that makes no sense.

Why would anyone make a journey involving two changes if they could
make one? It's not as if they are avoiding the (relatively) low
frequency NLL by doing so, they've always got to make some of the
journey on this line. Nor are the connections nice, the "wrong" way
connection at Oxford Circus is a longish walk as is the route from
the Vic to the ground level platforms at H&I (or am I confusing this
with FP?) And it can't be "quicker" this way. If it was, the default
route
from Willesden to Hackney would be via Z1, but it isn't.

Yes, I get where you're coming from.

Maybe instead of working on the basis of Bakerloo-Victoria-NLL, the
default fare is instead based on taking a fast train from H&W to
Euston, then Vic line to H&I, then NLL to Hackney? (Though yes, that
would inevitably entail passing through ticket gates in zone 1 twice
at Euston NR & LU.)

Indeed, whilst the NR journey planner suggests travelling via a
change at Willesden Jn and then the NLL for nearly all journeys, the
TfL Journey Planner alternately suggests that route and the fast
train to Euston route - and the latter is shown as being faster at
around 45 mins compared to 55 mins for the former.

Thinking aloud, I dare say that 'default fares' are generated by some
sort of routing algorithm, and it takes a bit of human intervention
to alter them (which hasn't happened here)? Given the need to pass
through gates in zone 1 if travelling via Euston (which would
inevitably mean a via-z1 fare being charged), I think it'd be fair
enough to change the default fare so as to assume the non-z1 route,
i.e. changing at Willesden Jn.

Yes, I had a similar experience a while ago. I didn't bother complaining
as l reached the Oyster day limit during the day, and passed through
zone 1 later in the day anyway.

"Recliner" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

Thinking aloud, I dare say that 'default fares' are generated by some
sort of routing algorithm, and it takes a bit of human intervention
to alter them (which hasn't happened here)? Given the need to pass
through gates in zone 1 if travelling via Euston (which would
inevitably mean a via-z1 fare being charged), I think it'd be fair
enough to change the default fare so as to assume the non-z1 route,
i.e. changing at Willesden Jn.

Yes, I had a similar experience a while ago. I didn't bother complaining
as l reached the Oyster day limit during the day, and passed through zone
1 later in the day anyway.

The extinction of the zones 2-6 (and 2-9) daily cap has perhaps had the
effect of making me somewhat less concerned with ensuring that I benefit
from non-z1 fares, at least on days when I'm likely to hit a cap (all of
which now include z1 of course). Though just to be clear I'm by no means
writing off the non-z1 fare concept at all.

(Since the removal of the z2-6 cap I'm also now likely to ponder a moment
longer - at the weekend at least - as to whether it's worthwhile going to a
station and getting the Railcard-reduced Day Travelcard, which of course
covers all of zones 1-6, for £5.30.)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:44:58 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
The extinction of the zones 2-6 (and 2-9) daily cap has perhaps had the

When did this happen?

Thats nice of them. Anything to grab some more money.

B2003