In message , at 11:12:18 on
Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Paul Scott remarked:
There are several tickets which could be bought (eg a Z U12
originating one rather than Finsbury Park as such), but it looks like
the cheapest would be to buy the regular one, and pay the extra from
Tottenham Hale down to Finsbury Park.

But would a 'regular' (ie rail only) ticket from Finsbury Park to
Cambridge be valid on the WA route between Cambridge and Tottenham Hale
at all?

An "Any Permitted" one would, versus a "Not London". The former is about
£2 more expensive.

In fact, now I look closer, you don't need to do the BoJ trick, because
a FP-Shelford ticket is the same price as a FP-Cambridge one (ie the
final leg south is free). It also means that if you buy the Shelford
ticket it's possible to return via Cambridge as well as arrive that way.

So the rail-only ticket needed is a FP-Shelford Any Permitted, but it's
entirely possible others are cheaper, partly because of throwing away
the Tottenham Hale onwards entitlement.

And we still don't know if this is a day trip or not, or Off-peak or not
(either of which might affect the result). Although U23* tickets are
only available as Day tickets, so that might be a clue.

opFrom: U23* LONDN
opTo: Shelford Cambs
opRoute: NOT LONDON
op
opI've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
opFinsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

I think the ticket is valid via Cambridge, because like the Finsbury
Park one it's the same price to either Cambridge or Shelford.

ps the Avantix code for U23* London is 0797.
pps I'm assuming that the U23* ticket allows use of the Underground to
Tottenham Hale, not sure where to look that one up though.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

In fact, now I look closer, you don't need to do the BoJ trick, because a
FP-Shelford ticket is the same price as a FP-Cambridge one (ie the final
leg south is free). It also means that if you buy the Shelford ticket it's
possible to return via Cambridge as well as arrive that way.

Not according to the NREs OJP - as I wrote earlier it is putting up the
'multiple tickets' warning for journeys via Cambridge.

How/where are you getting your info?

Paul S

In message , at 17:00:06 on
Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Paul Scott remarked:
In fact, now I look closer, you don't need to do the BoJ trick, because a
FP-Shelford ticket is the same price as a FP-Cambridge one (ie the final
leg south is free). It also means that if you buy the Shelford ticket it's
possible to return via Cambridge as well as arrive that way.

Not according to the NREs OJP - as I wrote earlier it is putting up the
'multiple tickets' warning for journeys via Cambridge.

Their algorithm/database doesn't seem to believe in the "Any Permitted"
ticket also being usable via Cambridge, that's the problem. It is
permitted for the reasons I explain below. FWIW the FCC ticket sales
site also doesn't offer the Any Permitted ticket via Cambridge.

How/where are you getting your info?

The [offpeak day return] fares from (an admittedly out of date) Avantix
CD, the routing from the Routing guide, with a Finsbury Park to Shelford
journey having routing points at Finsbury Park and either Cambridge or
Stansted.

Using the "fares rule" [Cambridge ticket doesn't cost more than the
Shelford one] I can opt for Cambridge as the routing point, which offers
up Map WA. (Finsbury Park to Stansted is routed only via London).

Map WA shows the two London lines up to Cambridge, so Shelford to
Finsbury Park has a mapped route via Cambridge.

Looking at the latest prices on the Eastcoast site (which is vastly
easier to understand than the NationalRail one):

Offpeak Day Return Finsbury Park to Cambridge £24.50 "Any Permitted".
Finsbury Park to Shelford £24.50 "Any Permitted"

Typical timetable for the latter northbound on the KGX line:

Finsbury Park 10:11 FC
Cambridge 11:29
Train terminates at Cambridge

Cambridge 11:51 LE
Shelford Cambs 11:56
Train continues to London Liverpool Street

Or northbound on the Liverpool St line:

London Underground from Finsbury Park to Tottenham Hale
Please check operating hours for this service

Tottenham Hale 11:11 LE
Shelford Cambs 12:14
Train continues to Cambridge
--
Roland Perry

On Sep 29, 1:25*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

An "Any Permitted" one would, versus a "Not London". The former is about
2 more expensive.

Excellent. If that is right, then the person in the ticket was quite
wrong and needlessly rude to me (not that being rude is ever needful
of course).

I apologise for lack of data. I am likely to do this journey
occasionally. I would like to be able to catch the first train back at
Shelford and so it would be useful to be able to go either via
Cambridge or via Tottenham Hale (and then catch the underground -
which I can pay for with my Oyster). Hence the desire for an option.

All journeys will be single day. This one was off-peak, but that won't
always be true.

Am I right in understanding that, in your view, an "Any Permitted"
ticket from Finsbury Park to Shelford would permit me to:

(1) board a train at FP to Cambridge
(2) change onto a Liverpool St bound train at Cambridge and then
alight at Shelford
(3) leave the network at Shelford, spend time there and then...
(4) either reverse the above route or...
(5) board a train to Liverpool Street from Shelford and then alight at
Tottenham Hale leaving there (the underground I can then handle).

I think that's what you are saying.


In fact, now I look closer, you don't need to do the BoJ trick, because
a FP-Shelford ticket is the same price as a FP-Cambridge one (ie the
final leg south is free). It also means that if you buy the Shelford
ticket it's possible to return via Cambridge as well as arrive that way.

So the rail-only ticket needed is a FP-Shelford Any Permitted, but it's
entirely possible others are cheaper, partly because of throwing away
the Tottenham Hale onwards entitlement.

And we still don't know if this is a day trip or not, or Off-peak or not
(either of which might affect the result). Although U23* tickets are
only available as Day tickets, so that might be a clue.


My apologies. Today was spent doing the journey and associated
activity. For simplicity I did it entirely via Tottenham Hale so as to
avoid arguments.

opFrom: U23* LONDN
opTo: Shelford Cambs
opRoute: NOT LONDON
op
opI've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
opFinsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

I think the ticket is valid via Cambridge, because like the Finsbury
Park one it's the same price to either Cambridge or Shelford.

Ah, that makes sense. So, its also valid.


ps the Avantix code for U23* London is 0797.
pps I'm assuming that the U23* ticket allows use of the Underground to
Tottenham Hale, not sure where to look that one up though.

Underground is less worrying.

Francis

In message
, at
12:40:56 on Thu, 29 Sep 2011, Francis Davey remarked:
An "Any Permitted" one would, versus a "Not London". The former is about
2 more expensive.

Excellent. If that is right, then the person in the ticket was quite
wrong and needlessly rude to me (not that being rude is ever needful
of course).

See my reply to Paul, but it's very confusing I agree. The price
differential has increased a little as well - the "Not London" offpeak
day returns via Hitchin are £20 (but aren't interavailable with the via
Tottenham Hale route, which is what the extra £4.50 is in effect paying
for). Another way of looking at it is to say the £24.50 ticket has the
bonus that you can return via Cambridge and Hitchin as well as the more
direct route.

I apologise for lack of data. I am likely to do this journey
occasionally. I would like to be able to catch the first train back at
Shelford and so it would be useful to be able to go either via
Cambridge or via Tottenham Hale (and then catch the underground -
which I can pay for with my Oyster). Hence the desire for an option.

Yes, I'm assuming you've lost interest in the U23 tickets, and will use
Oyster for the tube. The offpeak Day Return seems to have been deleted,
and the Anytime day return is now £30.90 to Shelford but a whopping £36
to Cambridge, so it fails the fares rule. The more expensive again
Offpeak period return also fails the fares rule (but only by 40p this
time).

All journeys will be single day. This one was off-peak, but that won't
always be true.

The price for Anytime "Any Permitted" tickets from Finsbury Park is
£33.70 for both Cambridge and Shelford (which we didn't necessarily
expect given the recent parting of the ways of the U23 tickets) so that
means the same interavailability logic applies.
--
Roland Perry