In message of Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:47:40
in uk.transport.london, d writes
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:27:07 -0000
"John C" wrote:
The delay caused by the sensitive edge doors appears disproportionate to the
benefit. The Victoria line used to be ultra reliable. Now it's just a
shambles.

Agreed. This morning about 845, I was on a Central Line train which
juddered to a halt approaching Bethnal Green. "Please don't lean on the
doors" soon followed from the driver.


Just wait until we have fully automatic trains with no drivers at the front.
That'll be utter chaos. It might work on the DLR but that never sees the
crush loadings you get on the tube. Much as I despise Bob Crowe he's right

When did Boltar last do Bank - Canary Wharf at 0830?

about this one.

In 1967, when automatic train operation was introduced on the Victoria
Line, drivers applied muscle to become the highest paid Underground
drivers.
The saving in running costs probably justifies a premium.


B2003


--
Walter Briscoe

On Nov 24, 10:37*am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"peter" wrote



Don't know what happened, but if it was a 'person under a train' then
for once I don't blame TfL. *But why could the disruption not have
been announced on the South Eastern train at Vauxhall?

Perhaps because Southeastern don't go to Vauxhall. *;-)

Peter

My mistake. I meant, of course, South Western. But then I still think
of it all as Southern Region.

Peter

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:23:25 +0000
Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message of Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:47:40
in uk.transport.london, d writes
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:27:07 -0000
"John C" wrote:
The delay caused by the sensitive edge doors appears disproportionate to the
benefit. The Victoria line used to be ultra reliable. Now it's just a
shambles.

Agreed. This morning about 845, I was on a Central Line train which
juddered to a halt approaching Bethnal Green. "Please don't lean on the
doors" soon followed from the driver.


Just wait until we have fully automatic trains with no drivers at the front.
That'll be utter chaos. It might work on the DLR but that never sees the
crush loadings you get on the tube. Much as I despise Bob Crowe he's right

When did Boltar last do Bank - Canary Wharf at 0830?

2001.

Is it as rammed as the tube now?

In 1967, when automatic train operation was introduced on the Victoria
Line, drivers applied muscle to become the highest paid Underground
drivers.

Why doesn't that susprise me - get paid more for doing lessÂ. I can see why
LU want to get shot of them altogether.

The saving in running costs probably justifies a premium.

Why? Any savings should go into reduced ticket prices for passengers, not
higher wages for the lazy ****s at the front.

B2003

On Nov 24, 8:56*am, peter wrote:
I too was caught up in the Victoria Line chaos last night. My journey
was from Wimbledon to New Barnet - train to Vauxhall, VL to Highbury
then train to New Barnet. Made it as far as Pimlico, when the VL train
stopped interminably in the platform. *I crossed over, got a s/b train
to Stockwell, Northern line to Moorgate then train home, arriving
about 40 minutes late.

Don't know what happened, but if it was a 'person under a train' then
for once I don't blame TfL. *But why could the disruption not have
been announced on the South Eastern train at Vauxhall?

Because South Eastern trains don't go to Vauxhall.

After all, lots
of people make the same interchange, and staff at Vauxhall must have
known what was going on. Then I could have stayed on the train to
Waterloo and avoided the VL altogether.

A bit of joined up thinking is all it needs - is that too much to ask
of our fragmented transport system?

Peter

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 16:08:33 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:23:25 +0000
Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message of Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:47:40
in uk.transport.london, d writes
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:27:07 -0000
"John C" wrote:
The delay caused by the sensitive edge doors appears disproportionate to the
benefit. The Victoria line used to be ultra reliable. Now it's just a
shambles.

Agreed. This morning about 845, I was on a Central Line train which
juddered to a halt approaching Bethnal Green. "Please don't lean on the
doors" soon followed from the driver.


Just wait until we have fully automatic trains with no drivers at the front.
That'll be utter chaos. It might work on the DLR but that never sees the
crush loadings you get on the tube. Much as I despise Bob Crowe he's right

When did Boltar last do Bank - Canary Wharf at 0830?

2001.

Is it as rammed as the tube now?

In 1967, when automatic train operation was introduced on the Victoria
Line, drivers applied muscle to become the highest paid Underground
drivers.

Why doesn't that susprise me - get paid more for doing lessÂ.

Like bosses sitting in the office while others do the sweating ?

I can see why LU want to get shot of them altogether.

The saving in running costs probably justifies a premium.

Why? Any savings should go into reduced ticket prices for passengers, not
higher wages for the lazy ****s at the front.

B2003

Walter Briscoe wrote:

In 1967, when automatic train operation was introduced on the Victoria
Line, drivers applied muscle to become the highest paid Underground
drivers.

The saving in running costs probably justifies a premium.

They were the first LU drivers to have responsibility for door
operation, I presume, hence the negotiation for a premium payment?

Or were there guards, originally, on the Vic?

Or was the premium demanded because of the 'white collar'
responsibilities of operating (basically) a big computer, in a time
before mass computing?

Chris

In article ,
(Chris Read) wrote:

Walter Briscoe wrote:

In 1967, when automatic train operation was introduced on the Victoria
Line, drivers applied muscle to become the highest paid Underground
drivers.

The saving in running costs probably justifies a premium.

They were the first LU drivers to have responsibility for door
operation, I presume, hence the negotiation for a premium payment?

Or were there guards, originally, on the Vic?

No. Never. The 1967 stock never provided for doors to be operated from
anywhere but the driver's desks in the cabs.

Or was the premium demanded because of the 'white collar'
responsibilities of operating (basically) a big computer, in a time
before mass computing?

Market pricing, wasn't it?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Chris Read" wrote

They were the first LU drivers to have responsibility for door
operation, I presume, hence the negotiation for a premium payment?

Or were there guards, originally, on the Vic?

No.

Peter

peter wrote

Perhaps because Southeastern don't go to Vauxhall. *;-)

My mistake. I meant, of course, South Western. But then I still
think
of it all as Southern Region.

Theoretically an announcement and/or display could have been made on
the SWT train, on Vauxhall NR or on Vauxhall LT but since the last
didn't happen or was ineffective in changing behavior (since you got as
far as Pimlico) the chances of getting an effective message to those
outside TfL seems small.

--
Mike D

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:40:32 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
Why doesn't that susprise me - get paid more for doing lessÂ.

Like bosses sitting in the office while others do the sweating ?

Since when did a tube driver ever sweat? They sit on their arse all day and
push a couple of buttons for 45K. Yeah, tough job!

B2003