Paul Corfield wrote on 11 January 2012 13:39:53 ...
On Jan 11, 12:24 pm, wrote:

If you seriouly think the majority of people (including myself) who voted for
Boris did it because they didn't like bendy buses then you're an idiot.
I - as I suspect many others - simply voted for the buffoon to get rid if
that even bigger idiot Livingstone. Frankly I've yet to see a serious
candidate fielded for the london major. They're all been lightweights and
hasbeens from all parties.

Genuine question then - who would you consider to be a reasonably
acceptable / competent candidate for Mayor?

I sort of agree with your basic diagnosis (in your final sentence
above) but I'm not sure who would be a better choice than the current
candidates.

Andrew Adonis.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In message , at 17:30:41 on Wed,
11 Jan 2012, Richard J. remarked:
Genuine question then - who would you consider to be a reasonably
acceptable / competent candidate for Mayor?

I sort of agree with your basic diagnosis (in your final sentence
above) but I'm not sure who would be a better choice than the current
candidates.

Andrew Adonis.

So having made such a success of the original Academies programme, and
the Railways, you'd unleash him on London?
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 12:24:54PM +0000, d wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:56:08 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
Small town == not much traffic == not so many problems caused by
blocking junctions.
I never once saw a bendy bus block a junction. ISTM its just another myth
perpetuated by non bus users who didn't like them.

I did, a great many times.

Sure, just like they do in York. Where there's **** all traffic.
Whats traffic got to do with it? Either they block junctions and kill poor
innocent cyclists or they don't.

Umm, for the hard-of-thinking, please consider what might cause a
vehicle to stop on a junction, and the effects that might have. Now
apply those thoughts to the two situations where, first, there is lots
of traffic, and second, where there is not.

Now do you understand?

As for cyclists, bendy buses *are* more dangerous to cyclists than
normal buses, but only to those cyclists who are really ****ing stupid
and do stupid things like overtaking on the left and ignoring
indicators, and can't seem to grasp the idea of large vehicles needing
lots of space for turning, or the idea of blind spots.

Well, apart from that nice Mr. Johnson making it part of his manifesto
and people voting for him. The mayor has basically no significant
powers over anything that matters to most people apart from transport,
so the transport part of his manifesto was the only important bit.
If you seriouly think the majority of people (including myself) who voted for
Boris did it because they didn't like bendy buses then you're an idiot.

Of course. People voted for him because they liked his transport
policies as a whole and because ...

I - as I suspect many others - simply voted for the buffoon to get rid if
that even bigger idiot Livingstone.

Then you're an idiot who shouldn't be trusted with a vote. Are you
really saying that you didn't bother to consider the policies of the
chap you voted for?

Frankly I've yet to see a serious
candidate fielded for the london major. They're all been lightweights and
hasbeens from all parties.

First time round, Livingstone was a serious candidate with good policies
and a reasonable track record from his time at the GLC. He then fatally
wounded himself by re-joining Labour instead of remaining as an
independent. I'm fairly sure that if he had remained independent he'd
still be mayor.

FWIW, I voted for Johnson, because I thought his transport policies were
better than Livingstone's, and the other bloke's (Paddick?) transport
policies were ridiculous. There were no other candidates although I did
find the comedy acts most entertaining.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Are you feeling bored? depressed? slowed down? Evil Scientists may
be manipulating the speed of light in your vicinity. Buy our patented
instructional video to find out how, and maybe YOU can stop THEM

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 10:32:07 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
I never once saw a bendy bus block a junction. ISTM its just another myth
perpetuated by non bus users who didn't like them.

I did, a great many times.

Well I used to take them from bank to holborn on a regular basis when I
worked in that area and never saw it happen once nor have I seen it happen
elsewhere. I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

Sure, just like they do in York. Where there's **** all traffic.
Whats traffic got to do with it? Either they block junctions and kill poor
innocent cyclists or they don't.

Umm, for the hard-of-thinking, please consider what might cause a
vehicle to stop on a junction, and the effects that might have. Now
apply those thoughts to the two situations where, first, there is lots
of traffic, and second, where there is not.

If a vehicle stops on a junction because there's blocking traffic then its
the drivers fault for crossing in the first place. Its not the fault of the
vehicle. I've seen plenty of cars do it but I can't remember seeing many
buses do it. No doubt you've probably seen bendy buses cross junctions
hundreds of times without a problem but remember the one incident where it
occured.

And if you've ever been to Metz you'd know that the centre consists of tight
narrow streets with sharp corners and cars parked all over the place. Plenty
of things to potentially obstruct a bus.

I - as I suspect many others - simply voted for the buffoon to get rid if
that even bigger idiot Livingstone.

Then you're an idiot who shouldn't be trusted with a vote. Are you
really saying that you didn't bother to consider the policies of the
chap you voted for?

Pretty much. There was no way I wanted livingstone and his justice dodging
agenda pushing cronies like Jasper back in. Frankly I'd have voted for a
Tellytubby before him. Boris is a mostly harmless buffoon. So long as he
serves his term and basically does nothing of importance then thats fine by me.

and a reasonable track record from his time at the GLC.

Sorry, is that some kind of joke? Livingstone is the patron saint of whining
minority causes and to hell with the majority. He's a standard issue self
hating duplicitous anti english left wing baby boomer. The only good thing
about him and his worthless generation is that they'll soon be too old to
cause any more trouble and wreck society any further than they already have.

B2003

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 11:31:23AM +0000, d wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 10:32:07 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
Umm, for the hard-of-thinking, please consider what might cause a
vehicle to stop on a junction, and the effects that might have. Now
apply those thoughts to the two situations where, first, there is lots
of traffic, and second, where there is not.
If a vehicle stops on a junction because there's blocking traffic then its
the drivers fault for crossing in the first place.

True. Now consider why a driver might feel like he needs to do that.

In particular consider the case where he is driving a long vehicle and
needs to turn at the junction, and there are lots of short vehicles also
wishing to go the same way from some other direction.

Our bendy bus driver is waiting at the lights, they turn green, but
there isn't enough room in his desired direction for him to clear the
junction. So he waits. By the time the lights turn red there was
*some* room, but not enough, so he goes nowhere. Then the lights go
green in the other direction, and what space had formed gets filled with
other vehicles. Such as a normal bus, perhaps. Repeat ad infinitum.

If he is to move in any reasonable time, serving his passengers' needs
and not causing a massive queue to build up behind him, then he needs
to occupy the space that forms, with the unfortunate result that he
then blocks the junction. The problem arises because of a combination
of many factors:

* vehicle length;
* the amount of traffic;
* the spacing and size of junctions;
* where the long vehicles are (ie where the bus routes are);
* the number of long vehicles;
* traffic light phasing;
* no doubt some stuff I forgot

Suddenly introducing a squillion very long vehicles where previously
there were very few long vehicles without fixing some of those other
issues was stupid.

Then you're an idiot who shouldn't be trusted with a vote.
Pretty much.

yay selective quoting! Sorry, I couldn't resist.

and a reasonable track record from his time at the GLC.
Sorry, is that some kind of joke? Livingstone is the patron saint of whining
minority causes and to hell with the majority. He's a standard issue self
hating duplicitous anti english left wing baby boomer. The only good thing
about him and his worthless generation is that they'll soon be too old to
cause any more trouble and wreck society any further than they already have.

We were talking specifically about transport - the only thing that the
mayor has power over that people care about, remember. His championing
of the cause of one-legged lesbian nuclear-free whales is irrelevant.
What matters is his successful campaign, in the teeth of Tory
opposition, to do things like simplify fares and integrate different
modes of public transport.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

23.5 degrees of axial tilt is the reason for the season

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 11:13:46 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
Our bendy bus driver is waiting at the lights, they turn green, but
there isn't enough room in his desired direction for him to clear the
junction. So he waits. By the time the lights turn red there was
*some* room, but not enough, so he goes nowhere. Then the lights go
green in the other direction, and what space had formed gets filled with
other vehicles. Such as a normal bus, perhaps. Repeat ad infinitum.

Makes you wonder how any of the thousands of HGVs all over the country ever
make any progress doesn't it.

We were talking specifically about transport - the only thing that the
mayor has power over that people care about, remember. His championing
of the cause of one-legged lesbian nuclear-free whales is irrelevant.

Its not if he spends taxpayers money on it.

B2003

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:10:25PM +0000, d wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 11:13:46 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
Our bendy bus driver is waiting at the lights, they turn green, but
there isn't enough room in his desired direction for him to clear the
junction. So he waits. By the time the lights turn red there was
*some* room, but not enough, so he goes nowhere. Then the lights go
green in the other direction, and what space had formed gets filled with
other vehicles. Such as a normal bus, perhaps. Repeat ad infinitum.
Makes you wonder how any of the thousands of HGVs all over the country ever
make any progress doesn't it.

You may have noticed that very few of the biggest ones go into central
London.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter"

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 12:18:44 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:10:25PM +0000, d wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 11:13:46 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
Our bendy bus driver is waiting at the lights, they turn green, but
there isn't enough room in his desired direction for him to clear the
junction. So he waits. By the time the lights turn red there was
*some* room, but not enough, so he goes nowhere. Then the lights go
green in the other direction, and what space had formed gets filled with
other vehicles. Such as a normal bus, perhaps. Repeat ad infinitum.
Makes you wonder how any of the thousands of HGVs all over the country ever
make any progress doesn't it.

You may have noticed that very few of the biggest ones go into central
London.

But bendy buses weren't restricted to cental london. Some routes went out
into the burbs where you'll find a lot of HGVs. So what was the rationale
in getting rid of them from there?

B2003

d wrote:

But bendy buses weren't restricted to cental london. Some routes went out
into the burbs where you'll find a lot of HGVs. So what was the rationale
in getting rid of them from there?

Because a bus primarily designed for fast rapid trips at airports and in
city centres is not automatically suitable for longer journeys across the
suburbs. The bendies had an official capacity (as printed on the signs by
the driver's cab) that was about 50% more than they could hold in practice,
and they had limited seats and space to safely store the likes of
supermarket shopping. When you have long journeys seats are invariably more
desirable than a bus rampacked with standing room only crush crowded because
the route has had its de facto capacity cut despite official figures saying
it is sufficient. Furthermore the "free bus" aspect was particular disliked
because many passengers felt it brought extra problems to the route - and it
was hard to persuade people the bendies weren't "free" when ticket checks
were rare, especially outside zone 1, and a person who didn't mind the
stigma of being occasionally fined would be significantly better off because
the fines never approached regular usage (plus with readers spread across
the bus one could always tap their Oyster onto one if they did get wind of
an inspection).

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 15:20:10 -0000
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
wrote:

But bendy buses weren't restricted to cental london. Some routes went out
into the burbs where you'll find a lot of HGVs. So what was the rationale
in getting rid of them from there?

Because a bus primarily designed for fast rapid trips at airports and in
city centres is not automatically suitable for longer journeys across the
suburbs. The bendies had an official capacity (as printed on the signs by

Who said it was only designed for rapid trips and city centres? Because the
standing to seating ratio is high? So what, its high in plenty of metro trains
too.

the driver's cab) that was about 50% more than they could hold in practice,
and they had limited seats and space to safely store the likes of
supermarket shopping. When you have long journeys seats are invariably more

And you think in a double decker there is space to store shopping? Where?

desirable than a bus rampacked with standing room only crush crowded because
the route has had its de facto capacity cut despite official figures saying
it is sufficient. Furthermore the "free bus" aspect was particular disliked

Standing is better than no bus at all. The number of times I've seen packed
double deckers that couldn't let anymore people on I've lost count of. And
if you think standing in a bendy bus is bad trying standing on the staircase
of a double decker with a driver who thinks he's Schumacher.

because many passengers felt it brought extra problems to the route - and it
was hard to persuade people the bendies weren't "free" when ticket checks
were rare, especially outside zone 1, and a person who didn't mind the
stigma of being occasionally fined would be significantly better off because
the fines never approached regular usage (plus with readers spread across
the bus one could always tap their Oyster onto one if they did get wind of
an inspection).

Irrelevant. Thats an issue with inspection , it has nothing to do with the
bus. Using that logic you should close the whole of the DLR since it has
very few physical ticket barriers and the train captains rarely inspect
everyones tickets in rush hour.

B2003