If I get on the DLR at, say Crossharbour, and present my Oystercard
and then get of the DLR at Heron Quays and change to the Jubilee line,
will I be charged for one journey or 2? I presume you are meant to
swipe at Heron Quays?

Secondly, As a prepay is initially cahrged at full fare, and refunded
on exit, what happens if there is a station evacuation? You will not
be able to swipe out so will be overcharged, I presume? (There are
many evacuations where there isn't any real imminent danger - just
precautionary - so don't say that people will be pleased to get out
alive and not worry about it :-) )

You should only swipe once for going in and once going out. If you can not
make sure you are only charged for one journey and if not ring the
oystercard helpline to be refunded.

The process of Station evacuation has not been resolved and staff have yet
to be informed what to do.

"K" wrote in message
...
If I get on the DLR at, say Crossharbour, and present my Oystercard
and then get of the DLR at Heron Quays and change to the Jubilee line,
will I be charged for one journey or 2? I presume you are meant to
swipe at Heron Quays?

Secondly, As a prepay is initially cahrged at full fare, and refunded
on exit, what happens if there is a station evacuation? You will not
be able to swipe out so will be overcharged, I presume? (There are
many evacuations where there isn't any real imminent danger - just
precautionary - so don't say that people will be pleased to get out
alive and not worry about it :-) )

In message , Ben and Michiyo
writes
You should only swipe once for going in and once going out. If you can not
make sure you are only charged for one journey and if not ring the
oystercard helpline to be refunded.

Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?

A travel card just works. No phoning, no unnecessary swiping, no
overcharging, no stress. Is an Oyster truly an improvement for anybody
else other than LUL? If not, why is everybody playing along with this
charade?

--
Bob Adams (email to )

In message , Bob Adams
writes
In message , Ben and Michiyo
writes
You should only swipe once for going in and once going out. If you can not
make sure you are only charged for one journey and if not ring the
oystercard helpline to be refunded.

Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?

A travel card just works. No phoning

What phoning? You'll only need to phone if you have more than one
unresolved journey on your Oyster.

, no unnecessary swiping,

You still have to put a magnetic ticket through the gate at start and
finish or see someone to let you in/out if you have an extension ticket.

no
overcharging,

Oysters don't overcharge if used correctly (apart from a few anomalies
which are currently being sorted out.)

no stress.

Not true; the failure rate of magnetic tickets causes stress for
everyone.

Is an Oyster truly an improvement for anybody
else other than LUL? If not, why is everybody playing along with this
charade?

Oyster cards are much less susceptible to damage than magnetic tickets
which makes queues while someone tries over and over again to get their
ticket to open the gate less likely.
They are certainly much easier to use and it's impossible for the gates
to swallow them up, which again causes delays.
With added Pre Pay, you no longer have to queue at the ticket office to
buy an extension ticket for more than one zone; it's all done
automatically by the card and the reader.
The most important thing to remember is that the system will only work
efficiently and the way it was designed to if everyone validates their
card at both start and finish of the journey and keeps enough Pre Pay on
their Oyster to cover any out of zone journeys they might make.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

In message , Kat
writes
In message , Bob Adams
writes
In message , Ben and Michiyo
writes
You should only swipe once for going in and once going out. If you can not
make sure you are only charged for one journey and if not ring the
oystercard helpline to be refunded.

Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?

A travel card just works. No phoning

What phoning? You'll only need to phone if you have more than one
unresolved journey on your Oyster.

That sounds a lot like phoning to me.

, no unnecessary swiping,

You still have to put a magnetic ticket through the gate at start and finish or
see someone to let you in/out if you have an extension ticket.

Actually, there dozens of journeys involving the underground where you
never go through a single barrier. Take a NR train that arrives at
Moorgate. From there you can go to Canary Wharf (DLR) and your ticket
will stay in your pocket the whole way.

Swiping however will probably need in the future, a swipe to leave
Moorgate NR, another to enter Moorgate (Northern Line), again to leave
Bank (NL), again to enter Bank (DLR) and again to exit Canary Wharf.
Five swipes to currently replace no barriers. And then the same number
when going home again. That is not exactly going to speed up the daily
crush, is it?

no
overcharging,

Oysters don't overcharge if used correctly (apart from a few anomalies which
are currently being sorted out.)

An unusual definition of none.

no stress.

Not true; the failure rate of magnetic tickets causes stress for everyone.

I have been using a monthly travel card for the past five years. I have
had zero stress with it.

Is an Oyster truly an improvement for anybody
else other than LUL? If not, why is everybody playing along with this
charade?

Oyster cards are much less susceptible to damage than magnetic tickets
which makes queues while someone tries over and over again to get their
ticket to open the gate less likely.

Never happened to me.

They are certainly much easier to use and it's impossible for the gates to
swallow them up, which again causes delays.

Never happened to me.

With added Pre Pay, you no longer have to queue at the ticket office to buy
an extension ticket for more than one zone; it's all done automatically by the
card and the reader.

Never happened to me. I have a zones 1 to 6 card anyway.

The most important thing to remember is that the system will only work
efficiently and the way it was designed to if everyone validates their card at
both start and finish of the journey and keeps enough Pre Pay on their Oyster
to cover any out of zone journeys they might make.

Which does not answer my original question which was :
Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?

Bob.

--
Bob Adams (email to )

In message , Bob Adams
writes
In message , Kat
writes
What phoning? You'll only need to phone if you have more than one
unresolved journey on your Oyster.

That sounds a lot like phoning to me.

You only have to phone if you have more than one unresolved journey. If
you use the Oyster correctly, that shouldn't happen more than once.

Oysters don't overcharge if used correctly (apart from a few anomalies which
are currently being sorted out.)

An unusual definition of none.

It's not a definition; it's an explanation.

I have been using a monthly travel card for the past five years. I have
had zero stress with it.

Never happened to me.

Never happened to me.

Never happened to me. I have a zones 1 to 6 card anyway.

Which does not answer my original question which was :
Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?


Why don't you try seeing it from the POV of someone who DOES NOT have a
1 - 6 season ticket; DOES have constant problems with a magnetic ticket
which no matter how many times it's been replaced still fails again
after a few uses (I see lots of these); DO see their tickets swallowed
up by a faulty gate; and DOES have to go through UTS gates to travel?

Nice to see someone back to the usual LUL and LU staff knocking.... I
was starting to worry.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Bob Adams wrote:

Which does not answer my original question which was :
Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?

Do you realise that there are two kinds of oyster, travelcard and pre-pay
[1]? The thread had talked about pre-pay oyster; you're comparing them to
paper travelcards. A fair comparison would be between pre-pay oyster and
paper singles (in which case oyster is a huge win - cheaper and much more
convenient) or oyster and paper travelcards (in which case oyster is a
small win - it's easier to swipe; if it works, that is).

tom

[1] Well, two ways of using an oyster; the best way to think about an
oyster is as an electronic ticket wallet, in which you can keep either a
normal travelcard or a magic supply of singles (ie pre-pay), or both.

--
This should be on ox.boring, shouldn't it?

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:35:14 +0000, Bob Adams
wrote:

In message , Ben and Michiyo
writes
You should only swipe once for going in and once going out. If you can not
make sure you are only charged for one journey and if not ring the
oystercard helpline to be refunded.

Will somebody please explain to me how an Oyster card is an improvement
over a travel card _from a regular commuter passengers point of view_ ?

A travel card just works. No phoning, no unnecessary swiping, no
overcharging, no stress. Is an Oyster truly an improvement for anybody
else other than LUL? If not, why is everybody playing along with this
charade?

Err as one of the people who originally worked on this project I really
don't see what the problem is. All of the complications that are being
questioned via this newsgroup are the result of slightly different ways
of doing things and unfamiliarity with the system. There also seem to be
some issues over the operation of the support functions like the phone
lines and website but that is not the fault of the Oyster card per se.

A Travelcard on an Oyster card will "just" work too. You just touch the
target and off you go. No fumble factor, no jammed tickets, no risk of
someone else grabbing your ticket at the gate. If you lose your card or
someone steals it then it can be stopped - a big improvement if you've
forked out a lot of cash.

Pre-Pay is a new product and has not (IMO) settled down. The launch was
always going to be phased and I think you will continue to see questions
and issues being raised for a number of months until people gain
confidence in using it, staff awareness and training improves and the
newer features are introduced. It will take time to settle down.

Yes there are benefits for TfL from Oyster but a lot of those are about
providing a better service and more tailored fares products for
passengers. These should encourage usage of public transport -
especially off peak - and isn't this something that is considered to be
"a good thing"?

I have a staff Oyster card and I love it. When I go to Hong Kong I buy
an Octopus Card and love that too - it opened up the use of the Hong
Kong bus network (and therefore Hong Kong) for me because the old cash
only, no change system was very tourist unfriendly.

Try it - you *might* like it.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:

Pre-Pay is a new product and has not (IMO) settled down. The launch
was always going to be phased and I think you will continue to see
questions and issues being raised for a number of months until people
gain confidence in using it, staff awareness and training improves
and the newer features are introduced. It will take time to settle
down.


Try it - you *might* like it.

From the postings here it seems that some of the consequences of this
settling down period are increased hassle and expense for some users
even to the point of being refused travel. This is very off-putting.
Does TfL have a suitably responsive system for learning from these
issues that users can also gain some recompense from?

A trial or development period should not be at the expense of the
paying user.

John Haines

In article , (John
Haines) wrote:

In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:

Pre-Pay is a new product and has not (IMO) settled down. The launch
was always going to be phased and I think you will continue to see
questions and issues being raised for a number of months until people
gain confidence in using it, staff awareness and training improves
and the newer features are introduced. It will take time to settle
down.


Try it - you *might* like it.

From the postings here it seems that some of the consequences of this
settling down period are increased hassle and expense for some users
even to the point of being refused travel. This is very off-putting.
Does TfL have a suitably responsive system for learning from these
issues that users can also gain some recompense from?

A trial or development period should not be at the expense of the
paying user.

John Haines


I don't have all the posts, but from the original post in the Fare Dodging
Consequences topic, it seems that there was nothing wrong with the system
the the poster's case. He was fraudulently travelling in zone one when he
only had a zone two card and the system correctly identified this and
charged the person accordingly. In which case the system was working
correctly.

If a person fraudulently travelled in the same way with only a zone two
ticket, as the original poster said that he did regularly, then that
person would be fined if caught by a revenue inspector. Perhaps the Oyster
system can be amended to detect fraud and automatically deduct a fine as
well, with a court referral after X times

Too many people deliberately avoid paying their fare / correct fare
(and seem proud of the fact that they've fiddled something) then complain
when they get caught.

Roger